[sc. question:] Will heterosexuality survive women’s liberation?Was this a joke?
It won’t, not unless men get their act together, have their power taken from them and behave themselves. I mean, I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back.
I hope heterosexuality doesn’t survive, actually. I would like to see a truce on heterosexuality. I would like an amnesty on heterosexuality until we have sorted ourselves out. Because under patriarchy it’s shit.
And I am sick of hearing from individual women that their men are all right. Those men have been shored up by the advantages of patriarchy and they are complacent, they are not stopping other men from being shit.
I would love to see a women’s liberation that results in women turning away from men and saying: ‘when you come back as human beings, then we might look again.’”
http://www.radfemcollective.org/news/2015/9/7/an-interview-with-julie-bindel
Let us assume – for the sake of argument – that it was some edgy joke (but someone show me evidence of this, if you are going to seriously defend it).
Imagine if we replaced the word “men” with “Jews” or “Muslims” – and you would have something indistinguishable from the mentally-ill ravings and hatred of the Alt Right (which Alt Righters frequently do defend as just “edgy” humour).
But, for some reason, leftist Third Wave Feminists can casually joke about throwing men into some kind of concentration camps in our bizarre, truly deranged cultural leftist world.
Of course, if she was serious, then what on earth does this say about modern Third Wave Feminism? You tell me.
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All the lesbian ideologues hate men with the same passion that a hardcore racist hates their chosen race - like passionately, to an extent that they would genuinely like to injure, imprison and attack them. It's crazy obvious when you listen to them.
ReplyDeleteThe average feminist is not as bad generally. They don't actually hate men and want to dehumanise them in the same way. But they tend to be pretty bad regardless.
Depends on how representative Bindel is of third-wave feminism.
ReplyDeleteI would argue "not very". The views she espouses here are fringe and not echoed by most other third-wave feminists--thence the 'radical' moniker.
You also have to understand that third-wave feminism is far less homogenous than first or second-wave feminism. In it feminism has fractured into a diverse set of factions, all with different interests, goals, and views on how to achieve them. Even amongst this diverse set, though, Bindel's views are pretty rare.
I read Bindel as just a pure polemicist--she's more interested in trying to stir the pot and piss people off than anything else. A lot of 'radical' types are like that--whether it's the radical right, radical left, etc. It's rather childish if you ask me--far easy to do that than to engage with the real world and make real proposals for achievable change.
I wonder why you would even imagine it's a joke. Because it's too crazy as a serious proposal? It doesn't have to be a serious policy proposal to function as an expression of disgust and enmity, which is evidently its purpose.
ReplyDeleteIn many ways, the Alt-right is a mirror image of the regressive left. Some are radical/reactionary and are absolutely nuts. Some are more moderate and reasoned, but still mostly on the wrong side of many issues. I assume there may be some Alt righters that are open to what a Realist Left has to say. But certainly not the extremists.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I get the sense that both the Alt-Right and Regressive Left overemphasize "the personal is the political." If you read their literature you get the profound sense that many of these people are deeply frustrated by personal problems and find solace in conspiracy theories involving their supposed enemies. Having romantic problems or problems at work? It must be the evil feminist conspiracy or the Patriarchy keeping me down.
DeletePoliticizing all personal problems seems very popular these days. Every personal setback is now the fault of some "conspiracy." I think it is a sign of the increasing narcissism in society.
At least with economic issues there is some degree of reality regarding the interests involved. Conflicts between business and labor have a stronger basis in reality than conspiracy theories about the Patriarchy or International Jewry.
"If you read their literature you get the profound sense that many of these people are deeply frustrated by personal problems and find solace in conspiracy theories involving their supposed enemies. Having romantic problems or problems at work? It must be the evil feminist conspiracy or the Patriarchy keeping me down. "
DeleteThat might me if you are talking about some ignorant masses. Feminism is a bogus theory that seems to dominate in universities now. I don't want to say that all feminism has always been bad but the third wave seems to be generally blowing things out of proportions. There are so many assumptions in It that are totally false. Like we have rape culture, and so many percantages of women are sexually assualted while in college. Those numbers are usually bogus and if you ask me, we don't have rape culture in Western societies. Rape is not only punished by Courts but generally people are very when a girl gets raped somewhere. I have never met men who approve rape in a workplace or anywhere else. In fact if you blow it with women, you should be ashemed of yourself, even embaraśsed, thet's the message. If we had rape culture, don't you think I would have met thse kinds of men somewhere? These are the feminist tactics, to push this vicitmhood idea and this is just one example. Karen Straughan does a good job debunking feminism.
In many regards, MGTOW seems to me to be the male version of "Separatist Feminism", with different adjectives. Most likely, MGTOW isn't nearly as popular as it's made out to be, as is the case with Separatist Feminism (albeit, SF has been around awhile).
DeleteI would definitely like to see Academic scholars linking these new ideological movements with the rise of "Narcissism" in our culture. It would make sense to me anyways, as I see Feminism contain many narcissistic characteristics, but moreover have seen it in some ways be co-opted by people who seem quite narcissistic (Rebecca Watson complaining about "getting asked for coffee", Anita Sarkeesian and her non-trivial lies, or asking for donations almost immediately after she supposedly receives some "death threats".). In some regards it parallels to religion, whose worst members also happen to be narcissists that want to take advantage of its guilt-prone flock, and to seek high status.
Then you look at some of the Alt-righters and see basically the same thing. Ever heard about RooshV?
There's a whole contingent of the so-called "Men's Rights Movement" and of MGTOW that sounds exactly like that, especially the last sentence. Just replace "men" with "women" and delete the attack on heteros, and you have a Masculine-based version of Atlas Shrugged.
ReplyDeleteColor me Bored With It All.
Really? Men's Right Movement proposing consentration camps and checking women out of those camps like books?
DeleteWell you could come close to that. Some think the 19th amendment should be repealed, and that men are better off using prostitutes than getting married. Eventually you get women with less reason to educate themselves and sexual utilitarianism begins to increase.
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ReplyDeleteGary on top form:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/08/aleppo-gary-johnson-syria-war-question