Friday, September 9, 2016

Are You Left-Wing but Sick of the Regressive Left?

(1) are you tired of making excuses for SJW insanity and the craziness of identity politics?

(2) are you tired of hearing how wearing sombreros, “culturally insensitive” Halloween costumes, or doing yoga are supposedly “racist” and “cultural appropriation”?

(3) are you tired of Postmodernist B.S. and being told that there is no such thing as objective truth or that “all cultures are equal”?

(4) are you fed up with the hostility to free speech on the Left and its quasi-McCarthyite culture of political correctness?

(5) have you had enough of hearing bizarre, regressive left conspiracy theories blaming all our problems on the capitalist, white-male, heterosexual patriarchy?

(6) do you think some of the ideas of man-hating Third Wave Feminism have become unhinged?

(7) do you reject the cult of open borders?
Then you need to come over to the Realist Left or Alt Left:
Realist Left on the Internet:
Realist Left on Facebook @realistleft
Realist Left on Twitter @realistleft
Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Realist Alternative to the Modern Left

Alt Left on the Internet:
Alternative Left @alternativeleft
An Alt-Left closed Facebook discussion group can be accessed through this page as well.


I’m on Twitter:
Lord Keynes @Lord_Keynes2
https://twitter.com/Lord_Keynes2

45 comments:

  1. What about also including

    8) are you tired of leftists blaming capitalism for everything including climate change, environmental problems, police brutality, and wars?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There's such a thing as "Don't come across too strident".

      Delete
  2. I'm sick of those, yes. But I also have no use for the "Cult of Shit On Muslims" or anything that doesn't start with changing ourselves 1st, realizing no one is a worse sinner than anyone else.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. " realizing no one is a worse sinner than anyone else.'

      What a moral cretin you are. You don't look too young to have memories of apartheid South Africa. You merely discount it so that you can preen as relativer than thou. You exemplify the problem LK complains of.

      Delete
    2. You don't look too young to have memories of apartheid South Africa

      And that has relevance... how?

      You merely discount it so that you can preen as relativer than thou

      Funny, but I recall being dead set against US support of that nation as long as that particular government was in place.

      ou exemplify the problem LK complains of

      The opposite of that has been a long, sad history of trying to effect change at the point of a gun. Since what I advocate doesn't lead to that, I'll happily keep on keepin' on, thank-you very much.

      Delete
  3. Dear LK,

    At first, it looked like your main concern was economic policy (broadly construed).
    Hence your relevant criticisms of those who are fond of cultural, identity etc. matters.
    But now it looks like the very cultural battle against those who are fond of cultural battles is becoming a priority to you. And I am afraid that at some point the cure becomes almost as bad as the ill. For identity politics is certainly divisive. But criticism of id politics can become divisive as well if it obscures the very basis of any good social(-ist) reform in past history : collective enlightened self-interest of the vast labouring majority (I mean a coalition between blue collars, ordinary public servants, small buisinesses bosses, rank and file executives).

    If we depart from that simple basis (and of course a neat commitment to human rights and the rule of law) I think we are doomed to lose people along the way.
    And even the most modest success (like say preventing the NHS from being destroyed) we need to build large coalitions (in order to protest, strike and even win at least some seats in parliaments).
    Furthermore, beware of naming "conspiracy theorist" anyone who points out that some bad policies come from interest groups (esp. banking sector and big buisiness). Actually you resorted to that kind of explanation : top executives do push open borders and policies since it helps keeping real wage low and middle class people do accept it since they are not directly harmed by it.
    The more bred and butter our politics the better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You've put into words what I couldn't say, thanks. I might add that I don't hear Steve Keen or Michael Hudson so wrapped up in those "Culture War" angles, either.

      Blame-gaming particular ethnic groups will only lose the opportunity to reach them... and bring about a New NAZI Germany.

      Delete
    2. Kevin

      LK not blaming any ethnic group and everyone i believe is welcomed into our group no matter their ethnicity or religion.


      Delete
    3. It's more what I saw on one of the Fb groups I looked over that I'm referring to. And only those individuals can tell you if they're welcomed or not. I can't do that for them.

      Delete
    4. "Blame-gaming particular ethnic groups "

      Nobody is "Blame-gaming particular ethnic groups". I blame governments for bad policies, particularly catastrophic open borders policies, not ethnic groups.

      Delete
    5. germi lad@September 9, 2016 at 7:40 AM

      Cultural leftism is doomed and even amongst SJWs will be rejected with a backlash soon enough. A sensible critique from the left now is what is needed.

      Delete
    6. "It's more what I saw on one of the Fb groups I looked over that I'm referring to."

      And what was that?

      Delete
    7. Trump is certainly perceived as having done so. Now that's been disputed but when you go from "Mexican" and "Rapist" in the same context... to "Mexican" and "Biased Judge" in another context, there's not much room left.

      And we don't even have open borders to worry about!

      I'll concede that Europe should probably get rid of that policy, may need to be more vigilant about it.

      Delete
    8. I guess it was on the Alt-Left group. Not seeing it on Realist Left. Some meme or post about Islam, not recalling.

      Delete
    9. "Trump is certainly perceived as having done so."

      For christ's sake, I meant nobody *here* who's left-wing. What am I now f*cking responsible for everything people on the right say?

      Delete
    10. Well then... Maybe you need to clarify whether your numerous posts about Trump constitute as an endorsement?

      Delete
    11. None of my posts pointing out facts, or important points about Trump's turn to left-wing economic ideas, or even agreement with specific ideas (e.g., protectionism or tightening border controls) constitute my personal endorsement of him. Geez.

      I do understand why many disillusioned Democrats seem to want to vote for him, though, just as I understand why, say, UKIP in Britain attracts working class votes.

      Delete
    12. I also thought I made it clear I liked and supported Bernie, which I did, despite issues with his SJWism.

      Delete
    13. LK on Kevin Wayne
      "For christ's sake, I meant nobody *here* who's left-wing. What am I now f*cking responsible for everything people on the right say?"

      You have been introduced to the Kevin Wayne school of attribution. He does this sort of thing all the time, and even rather openly. He will make the most ridiculous and uncharitable interpretation, and focus on words that have ambiguous meanings and talk about "lterally true'.

      In his honor I will apply the technique to a frequent commenter here: Kevin Wayne has expressed the view he's prefer to live in poverty, with no access to anti-biotics, and no plumbing than live where he is ruled by a bunch of Jews.

      Delete
    14. Yeah, I think I entered the picture after Bernie was mostly discussed.

      I think what I'm getting at isn't even the thing of who you do or don't endorse, it's a different aspect altogether.

      In my mind, what I would do or say to counter Trump's silliness gets me the reaction of "SJW!" - Of course that was mostly in different circles than you guys on this blog. But to me something needs to be said and forcefully so when he makes some of his ridiculous remarks.

      I think I'm reacting to MRM-stuff and the crazy wackjob trolls that crowd seems to draw. Long story, but there was a guy on Reddit who posted a video by another guy who is known as a White Nationalist. When objections were raised, the 1st guy said something to the effect of "You're all a bunch of Leftists!" lol

      Anyway, I need to participate in these discussions when I'm way tired and lacking serious sleep. Ha.

      Delete
    15. in poverty, with no access to anti-biotics, and no plumbing than live where he is ruled by a bunch of Jews

      As if conditions in the occupied territories are going swimmingly well.

      Delete
    16. And I might add: The caricature you just made of my position is exactly that. I was contrasting the West Bank & Gaza to Moorish Spain:

      http://www.blackhistorystudies.com/resources/resources/15-facts-on-the-moors-in-spain

      And I'll stick to my guns on that, thanks very much.

      Delete
    17. "LKSeptember 9, 2016 at 9:52 AM
      I also thought I made it clear I liked and supported Bernie, which I did, despite issues with his SJWism."

      LK, what specific B Sanders "SJW" policies did you disagree with.

      IMHO Sanders advocated social democractic economic policies as his primary emphasis, endlessly repeating the need for Canada-style MedicareForAll, $15 min wage, & free tuition at public universities through a 4-yr Bachelor's Degree. He also did mention that there are indeed significant racial & gender disparities in the US. For instance, the mass incarceration & police murders of civilians, which occur disproportionately to dark-skinned USians, especially Black USians.

      AFAIK, any such racial issues Sanders mentioned are proven facts with hard data, it is describing the US 2016 reality as-is. Keep in mind that the Barbaric US is an "American Exceptionally" horrible outlier on many of these issues among the OECD nations, for instance on police violence (1200 civilians killed/yr), or the economic/health injustice of blocking Canada-style MedicareForAll (45K USians die/yr, per Harvard Public Health Profs' study). Perhaps any such racial injustices are not as stark in actually Civilized nations like UK/OECD nations.

      I agree with most of Sanders' policies. The Green party's Dr. Jill Stein is superior to Sanders, in that she is strongly anti-War/anti-US Empire/MIC.

      Again, what specific "SJW" Sanders policies did you disagree with

      ProNewerDeal

      Delete
    18. Of course it's a caricature of your *statement*. It's an apt portrayal of your *method*.

      Delete
    19. I'm sorry, the correct answer is *none of the above* - You get an "F" for the day.

      Delete
    20. life expectancy in gaza and west bank is more or less like in the u.s


      http://www.indexmundi.com/west_bank/life_expectancy_at_birth.html

      http://www.maan-ctr.org/magazine/article.php?id=11bf41y1163073Y11bf41

      http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN

      its higher than in egypt

      http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN

      its like saudi arabian

      http://countryeconomy.com/demography/life-expectancy/saudi-arabia

      higher than in iran

      https://www.google.co.il/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=VQXTV5OsN6Hb8Af6tYKACw&gws_rd=ssl#q=life+expectancy+iran

      way higher than in yemen

      https://www.google.co.il/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=VQXTV5OsN6Hb8Af6tYKACw&gws_rd=ssl#q=life+expectancy+yemen

      i will not mention here african countries which have average life span of 50 years old of course.


      also its higher enrollment into teritary education than the average in the arab world

      http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.TER.ENRR?name_desc=true

      so the life of palestinians is really hard? yes it is

      does it a place which have one of the most severe and harsh conditions in the world? no its not

      Delete
    21. @germi lad,

      I agree that the Left needs to concentrate on a broad coalition based on bread and butter economic issues, but the Cultural Left is being used as a wedge to prevent that sort of coalition from forming. Both the Left and Right are using tribalism to divide people up and keep them fighting over nonsense like "the Gender Wars." A Realist Left need to point out how destructive this is to regular working people.

      Delete
    22. does it a place which have one of the most severe and harsh conditions in the world? no its not

      Well when you find the guy who said that, make sure you rebuke him good~! ;-)

      Delete
    23. I might add here: I was chided for saying that Saudi Arabia being a US/Israeli ally (which it is) is one of the worst actors in the Middle East. Interesting this should be in the news right now:

      https://youtu.be/lyZPoS7Gw4Q

      So far my foot is steering quite clear of my mouth. How 'bout you guys? :]

      Delete
    24. and yet kevin the life expectancy of palestinians their birth mortality and their teritary education levels showing that actually they are way better than low income african and asian countries and they are better off than the less rich arab countries as well.

      also the death toll of the israeli palestinian conflict which conitnue 70 years is something like 70 thousnds people.

      while a lot of conflicts in the middle east are taking hundred of thousnds of lives in 1-5 years.

      like the civilian war in algeria like genocide of the kurds in iraq like the masscare of the islamists by assad the father.

      so how exactly west bank is one of the worst places in the world to live in?


      now about saudi arabia being ally of israel how is that exactly possible?

      if saudi arabia and israel are currently in a cease fire but officially at war not to mention that israel dont provide any help to saudi arabia and saudi arabia dont provide any help to israel?

      also for the sake of arguement how saudi arabia is worse than iran?

      Delete
    25. Daniel Marmur@September 10, 2016 at 2:09 AM

      On another topic, what is your assessment of the Israeli left?

      (1) are there unreasonable cultural leftist / Postmodernist / multiculturalist elements in the Israeli left? Or is it not so much of a problem there?

      (2) what is your assessment of Uri Avnery and Gush Shalom?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uri_Avnery

      (3) out of interest, what is your position on West bank settlements or a proposed two state settlement?

      Delete
    26. Daniel, I never said the Occupied Territories were "is one of the worst places in the world to live in." Stop putting words in my mouth.

      Also, I've already given you quite a bit of sources on Turkey and Saudi Arabia as US/Israeli allies as well as Iran's oppression of women being a bit exaggerated. Try reading what I've already given you, or hit up Google on your own for once.

      Delete
    27. 1.turkey and saudi arabia are allies of u.s officially also turkey is part of NATO what it have to do with israel is mystery.

      2.who cares about the treatment of women in iran with all my respect to iranian women (not to mention that we can say that hey the treatment of women in saudi arabia is not that bad too).

      i spoke with you about iranian support of groups which massacre sunni civilians in yemen and iraq and no better than ISIS.

      so how exactly iran and its bloodthirsty proxies in yemen iraq and syria which massacre brutally people all around any better than the sunni camp?

      (and no i am not supporting the sunni camp in my opinion they both worth each other)

      Delete
    28. turkey and saudi arabia are allies of u.s officially also turkey is part of NATO what it have to do with israel is mystery

      Haha that's funny, Daniel. As if Israel & the US aren't pretty much joined at the hip. The only time there was ever any realdaylight between them was when James Baker was Sec of State.

      saudi arabia is not that bad too

      Google is your friend, Daniel. I've already posted this shit once and I'm not doing it again.

      so how exactly iran and its bloodthirsty proxies in yemen iraq and syria which massacre brutally people all around any better than the sunni camp

      https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how+many+wars+is+the+us+in+right+now+2016

      Delete
    29. 1.actually u.s and israel is not joint on the hip simply because u.s.a support unstable shia puppet state in iraq which soon anyway will be under iranian control and in syria they support the "rebels" which means all othet radical jihadiats except isis guess what they all are hostile to israel because their purpose is to make israel sharyia state clean of jews so basically no matter who americans support its hostile for israel group so its pointless for israel to support any of this groups.

      2.u just said that saudi arabian main difference from iran about the treatment of woman is the ban on driving thats it in everything else they are 99 percent twins.

      But if we are comparing it to the west or evil israel norms both countries have serious opression of women.

      3.you still not answered how exactly the shia camp is any better than the sunni camp?

      Both have cruel bloodthirsty proxies and both have radical values and ideology.

      4.come on kevin now you are speaking about so called peace.

      In syria you have isis

      In iraq shia radical militas and aunni radical militas

      In iran radical ahia theocracy

      In saudi arabia radical sunni theocracy

      In yemen shia radicals which figjt with sunni radicals

      In lebanon shia milita which basically keep the country in its hands

      In lybia radical islamic gangs whoch figjt each other.

      Every where in the middle east you see that if a secular dictatorship fall you get just more radical islamic doctatorship.

      And whem israel went out of gaza in 2005 and left gaza to PLO (without blockade) what happened? Radical ialamic hamas won the elections and then kick out all the secular policemen by force.

      So how should i believe that if israel will give west bank to a secular corrupted PLO (ehich still in power because israel protect it from radixal islamists) palestinians and will evacuate its soldiers and settlements israel will get real peace?

      Why palestinians are somehow chosen people? Than they arab brethern i dont think so

      Delete
    30. LK

      The left in israel specially in universities is influenced less by pc and sjw

      But its influenced by post modernism with zionist man guilt which is sub category of white man guilt (post colonialism).

      Delete
    31. actually u.s and israel is not joint on the hip simply because u.s.a support unstable shia puppet state in iraq which soon anyway will be under iranian control and in syria they support the "rebels" which means all othet radical jihadiats except isis guess what they all are hostile to israel because their purpose is to make israel sharyia state clean of jews so basically no matter who americans support its hostile for israel group so its pointless for israel to support any of this groups

      And who was it that was all of the US invading Iraq? Why I think it was Nut-and Yahoo himself!

      As long as Israel doesn't raise any objections to US foreign policy, they are de facto complicit. Israel has a vested interest in the destabilization of other nations in the Middle East:

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

      http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/The%20Zionist%20Plan%20for%20the%20Middle%20East.pdf

      https://youtu.be/LM2Fi1rhYqc

      http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/06/the-jewish-plan-for-the-middle-east-and-beyond

      just said that saudi arabian main difference from iran about the treatment of woman is the ban on driving thats it in everything else they are 99 percent twins

      Nope:

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2016/01/05/saudi-arabia-is-washington-frenemy-reckless-riyadh-makes-mideast-more-dangerous-for-america/#2e5ed3241920

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-bandow/saudi-arabia-is-more-dang_b_9008536.html
      http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/27/zakaria-comparing-the-status-of-women-in-iran-and-saudi-arabia%E2%80%A8

      you still not answered how exactly the shia camp is any better than the sunni camp

      This is another one of your stupid questions that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about or reflects anything I've said. And I'm not answering it, so save your breath.

      come on kevin now you are speaking about so called peace

      Oh, how childish of you to go around pointing fingers at others children going "he did it toooooo!" The context is that in the process of trying to work out negotiations regarding giving money to Israel for resettling Soviet Jews, Israel wouldn't promise not to use it on their systematic seizure of land. Bakers comments reflect frustration over a concerted effort towards peace that was frustrated by Israeli attitudes. And guess what? His actions got results for once.

      You have tried pulling this stunt before where you attempt to deflect criticism of US/Israeli policy by pointing out this or that conflict among Arabs. That's why I showed you a link to research for yourself how many proxy wars the US is fighting over the globe. Earlier sources put it at about 74, more recently 134. The point is, America is just as evil as all the Arab states put together, unless you like it better that White People just use drones or put guns in the hands of brown people so they can kill each other. Either way, I'm unimpressed by your list, there.

      Delete
    32. But its influenced by post modernism with zionist man guilt which is sub category of white man guilt (post colonialism)

      Disgusting. If this is the thrust of this "New Left" or whatever it is, count me out. As soon as we start in denial of these things, we all loose out on the humanity we desperately need to gain.

      If he is influenced by "Zionist guilt," then he's a good man.

      Delete
    33. 1.netanyahu supported american invasion to iraq as many other leaders so what kevin?

      Also many country in the world dont raise objections to american policy israel dont raise objection for russian and chinese policy too so what? As many other countries

      2.about supposed yinon plan its a conspiracy theory

      http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/move-over-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion-make-room-for-the-yinon-plan/2015/09/25/2/?print

      http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/49694/move-over-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion-make-room-for-the-yinon-plan-middle-east/

      So what next illuminati and nwo which is controlled by the rotchilds kevin?

      3.well kevin here is articles that claim that iran is the most dangerous force for the u.s and most destablizing

      http://m.washingtontimes.com/specials/why-iran-deal-bad-both-america-and-israel/

      http://nypost.com/2016/07/30/the-most-dangerous-anti-american-force-isnt-isis-its-iran/

      So what i can give you many links which will say the opposite from your articles kevin but the facts atay facts both of this countries have radical ideologies which sponsor bloodthirsty proxies with radical ideology thats ths point kevin.

      4.kevin wake up i dont spoke about america at all and your reference to america have nothing to do with our initial talk and i just show you that with american help or without it the bloodshet will continue in the world and the middle east if its because of saudi arabia and iran oil if its because of turkey financing or other things america is not whag make middle east what it is thats the point.

      5.how exactly zionist guilt make someone a good man kevin?

      6. I am opposed to settlements not less than yiu so what? Kevin

      Delete
    34. http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/07/behind-israels-hysterical-opposition-to-iran-nuclear-deal

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/18/planned-chaos-in-the-middle-east-and-beyond

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/the-origins-of-the-israel-lobby-in-the-us

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/22/extreme-extremer-extremest

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/04/25/is-the-us-waging-israel-s-wars

      "Yinon’s strategy was based on this premise. In order to survive Israel must become an imperial regional power and must also ensure the break-up of all Arab countries so that the region may be carved up into small ineffectual states unequipped to stand up to Israeli military might."

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/12/us-caught-faking-it-in-syria

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/20/its-all-for-israel

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/15/israels-real-target-is-not-hamas

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/31/turkey-invades-syria-america-spins-the-bottle

      It’s a program that was developed over thirty years ago, in the Yinon plan, which articulated “the Zionist hope that sectarian-based states become Israel’s satellites and, ironically, its source of moral legitimation.” It was repeated earlier this year by Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon who said “I prefer ISIS” in Syria over Iran and Hezbollah; it was repeated again a few weeks ago by a Zionist theoretician who, in a paper entitled, “The Destruction of Islamic State Is a Strategic Mistake,” called ISIS “a useful tool,” and reminded his audience that: “Stability …is desirable only if it serves our interests.”

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/23/the-unraveling-of-zionism

      Delete
    35. look kevin you can continue feed me with conspiracies

      next time it will be protocols of elders of zion? (if you dont know its been a conspiracy about how jews wanted control the world)

      http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/move-over-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion-make-room-for-the-yinon-plan/2015/09/25/0/

      quote from the article:

      In the actual article, “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties,” Oded Yinon begins by addressing the general instability of the world in the 1980s and the threat of Soviet domination. He then discusses the Islamic states which are “built like a house of cards put together by foreigners” and doubts the Arab states as they are would continue to exist in the long run. “All the Arab States east of Israel are torn apart, broken up and riddled with conflict,” Yinon writes, and then discusses various states, their factions and the causes of their conflicts. He then discusses the fact that discrepancies in wealth pour more oil on the fire of civil unrest there. “In the course of the 1980s, the State of Israel will have to go through far-reaching changes in its political and economic regime domestically, along with radical changes in foreign policy, in order to stand up to global and regional challenges in this new epoch.”




      2.moshe bugi yaalon said that he prefer to fight unorganized terrorist group instead of fighting organized iran we can agree with his military judgements or not but again kevin i can give you big so what.

      the fact that bugi yaalon prefer ISIS as enemy dont prove your evil and dubious conspiracy taken from a badly translated article from the 80-s by a journalist which was never a poltician by himself.

      now i found the article which your super objective site spoke about
      now i would recommend you to read it yes its have a neoconnery in it but trust me the stability is good only when it serve us is way out of context.

      http://besacenter.org/perspectives-papers/destruction-islamic-state-strategic-mistake/

      now Kevin in the same institute i found an article which strongly criticize the first article and speaking about how isis should be destroyed

      http://besacenter.org/perspectives-papers/islamic-state-wiped/


      so kevin? thats it you base your infomration on badly translated article which been written not by a politican but by a simple journalist 30 years ago and an article in a think tank site which actually gave 2 counter articles?

      Delete
  4. I agree with you TG. May be my perspective is quite parochial. In my home country (france) the divisive cultural politics is rather coming from right-wing (and even so called social-democratic) political leaders and journalists and pseudo-intellectuals. They relentlessly slander islam and propose laws targeting muslim practices on a regular basis (scarfs, niqqabs, hallal meat, now the ludicrous polemic about burkini on seashores...) which of course does not help assimilation.
    On the other side, the PoMo lunatics are very fiew. Actually I only met some in universities. They have close to no power. And as far as I witnessed they are not seriously seeking power.
    It is more a fashion,"un supplément d'âme" than a real political line.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. germi lad

      i have a question for you which policies do you think will make muslims to assimiliate into french society?

      Delete
  5. Dear D.M.,
    I am sorry my answer happens to be both long and not very specific. As you will see, I do not think that there is an actual assimilation problem. In the following, I will assume that by muslims you denote mainly foreign ascent french citizen who somehow "inherited" islamic cultural traits from their parents and relatives.
    1/ I do not think that we should have specific policies toward any "community". Actually the very basis of the rule of law is that the State does not deal with alledged "communities" but only with individual whom it grants equal rights. Just example, should the State help building mosques ? No. Should it help poor people getting less poor? Yes. (And then they can use their extra-money to build mosques if they like.)
    2. As far as I know assimilation is allready taking place. I do not have a precise definition of the term but I would go for at least 5 criteria.
    a) intermarriage :
    b) adopted language becoming the main language (even with friends etc.)
    c) achieving modal professionnal status (i.e. not "specialising" into low-paid or origins related occupations).
    d) not forming a separate political organisation
    e) a rather subjective sense of colour/ culture blindness in every day interaction
    Judging by all those criteria I am rather optimistic about assimilation.
    a) According to E. Todd's Le destin des immigrés there was 27% of the 20 to 24 years old algerian ascent women marrying a french man. (as opposed to less than 2% turkish ascent women marrying a german and even less for pakistanese ascent women marrying a briton).
    But the book was published in the early 90' so that I can not know if the trend is still the same. I do not know if those inter marriages have proven more fragile than others over time either.
    b)I have no precise data but in my experience pupils do speak french even with pupils with (as far as can be told) the same origins.
    Popular rap bands (NTM, Sniper, etc.) have allmost only french lyrics. Even popular rai singers sing both in french and in arab. When it comes to foreign bands pupils listen mostly to english speaking ones even if they might also listen to rai.
    c) I do not have general statistics. And it would a thorough study to distinguish between the effects of possible discrimination and poorer school performances. But for example there are 16% french muslims within the army, which I do not know how to interpret (a quite good way to climb the social ladders? a will to prove oneself a patriot? an affinity between some intepretation of islam and military values?)
    d)As to now not a single organisation claiming to represent specifically muslim people has achieved serious electoral success (the best shot I know of being a 5% in a local election in Mantes la jolie.)
    Ceteris paribus muslim citizen are prone to vote rather for the candidates identified as left which suggest that when choosing about political subjects their moral / religious concerns do not come to the forefront (cf. same sex marriage, abortion, etc.)
    e)This last point is certainly the weakest but personnaly I never felt a religious gap. Having muslim colleagues and friends is very common. As a teacher I never noticed group forming on religious and or "racial" basis.
    3. Even if no specific policy is needed, many policies would certainly proove helpful: full-employment / ELR policies, more education spending esp. for those whose family cannot help much, measures helping reduce hiring discrimination where they exist, and of course no open borders (which triggers "racial" anxieties etc.)
    And of course, the political debate itself would help if most political entrepreneurs stopped disparaging muslim people on a regular basis. Since it is both a cheap and quite effective way to get attention I have little hope they will do so.

    ReplyDelete