tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post1871591428265044664..comments2024-03-28T17:08:15.784-07:00Comments on Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Realist Alternative to the Modern Left: The Origin of Money and Coinage in Western Civilisation: The Case of Ancient GreeceLord Keyneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-82512527793983888992013-04-08T18:38:34.386-07:002013-04-08T18:38:34.386-07:00http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrum
Mind the ...http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrum<br /><br />Mind the part about seigniorage.Anthony Limahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15923530382897881718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-74432179578601383602013-04-06T04:41:34.795-07:002013-04-06T04:41:34.795-07:00Bitcoin bubbles are neither interesting nor of muc...Bitcoin bubbles are neither interesting nor of much significance. They suggest the regression theorem is false but we already knew that:<br /><br />http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2013/04/bitcoin-is-no-great-mystery.html<br /><br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-73077249911700108802013-04-06T01:06:37.069-07:002013-04-06T01:06:37.069-07:00On a more modern note--still so sure Bitcoin will ...On a more modern note--still so sure Bitcoin will remain a "curiosity"?<br /><br />http://blockchain.info/charts/market-cap<br /><br />John Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-49677629233452630892013-04-05T14:18:30.860-07:002013-04-05T14:18:30.860-07:00Thanks for this comment.
Some points:
(1) The t...Thanks for this comment.<br /><br />Some points:<br /><br />(1) The testing of ancient Greek and Roman coins (or indeed any ancient or medieval coins) is regularly done by numismatists.<br /><br />You find variable results:<br />(1) some coins of fine quality with metal content equal to face value<br />(2) coins of variable value<br />(3) coins of debased value<br />(4) debasement of coinage over time.<br /><br />The Romans, for example, debased their coinage from the second century AD onwards, yet no disaster happened and price levels seem still to have been stable until the third century.<br /><br />The hyperinflation of late 200s AD was induced by rapid loss of confidence in the coinage, after very severe military, external, and internal crises, wars, and political instability, just like Weimar Germany. <br /><br />------<br /><br />(2) <i>"Another possibility is that, in some areas, the value of the coin was first fiat, or based on social convention, and only later, "</i><br /><br />As far as know, the early coins -- just through the limitations of technology -- had quite variable metal content, far from pure, yet they were still accepted.<br /><br />Aristotle makes comments that seem to suggest a chartalist view of coins and money.<br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-32055690819234950602013-04-05T13:33:08.260-07:002013-04-05T13:33:08.260-07:00Thanks for this. As a classics minor and hellenoph...Thanks for this. As a classics minor and hellenophile, this made my day.Julia Riber Pitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03006439247714055292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-81625913775387019122013-04-05T13:25:32.409-07:002013-04-05T13:25:32.409-07:00"Furthermore, the earliest coins already seem..."Furthermore, the earliest coins already seem to have been fiduciary to some extent, in the sense that conventional (or nominal) value was less than their intrinsic value (Peacock 2006: 643, citing Price 1983: 5 and Wallace 1987: 393). People tended to count coins, not weigh them out (Peacock 2006: 643). What provided the major inducement for acceptance of official stamped coins was the demand for them to pay taxes, fines and obligations to the state."<br /><br />I was thinking along similar lines, basically that coinage might have represented a kind of materialistic 'deficit spending,' in which warring states, with limited wealth, leveraged their treasure reserves by mixing more precious metals with less precious ones. One could presumably test ancient coins for metal content, and then, what? Compare the values to records of market values at the time, maybe? Makes for some precarious research, especially given the disarray that was measurement standardization in ancient times, but it could be done.<br /><br />Another possibility is that, in some areas, the value of the coin was first fiat, or based on social convention, and only later, perhaps after some social transformation (war, perhaps, or increased inter-state interaction), did the coin's value correspond not with social convention but instead correspond with its metal content, or at least a combination of social convention and metal content (what Richard von Glahn, vis-a-vis China, calls 'theoretical cartalism, practical metalism,' although he might have taken that expression from someone else.)<br /><br />(By the way, Von Glahn's book 'Fortune of Fortune' is one of the best English language treatments of Chinese coinage and monetary policy; there's also Peng Xinwei's book, 'A Monetary History of China.' When I get the time, I'm going try to put together a bibliography of political economic writings on China on my blog.)<br /><br />But I think it has to be mixed with a consideration of the origination of credit relations, which Michael Hudson, and following him David Graeber, are trying to do.<br /><br />From one perspective, the question then becomes: if credit already existed, then why created coinage at all? Here's where, I think, R. M. Cook's explanation comes in: credit is for people you trust; coins are for people you don't, like, say, mercenaries (likewise, they don't trust you.)<br /><br />But then are we leaving, effectively, the realm of chartalist explanation? After all, mercenaries (often from other states, cultures, etc.) are presumably not rendering up taxes. They might not even spend the money in the kingdom from which they earn it.<br /><br />Or, again, maybe not. Maybe a chartalist explanation makes sense, insofar as the king/state/ etc. levies the coins from his populace, thereby inducing them to accept payments from mercenaries, or military elements more generally. In that way the cycle is completed.<br /><br />The paucity of more concrete evidence allows the mind to go on a kind of a priori romp, the volume of possibilities leaving a lot of space for one's prior assumptions, prejudices, etc. Still, the sheer abundance of coins globally discovered by archaeologists makes me confident, or at least optimistic, that more conclusive understanding can be reached. K Michael Wilsonhttp://www.twitter.com/kmichaelwilsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-43456412585750653702013-04-05T11:45:59.131-07:002013-04-05T11:45:59.131-07:00Wonderful. Thanks for clearing up some misconcepti...Wonderful. Thanks for clearing up some misconceptions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00720722626969395929noreply@blogger.com