tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post1330561800192017379..comments2024-03-28T17:08:15.784-07:00Comments on Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Realist Alternative to the Modern Left: An Alternative Left Facebook PageLord Keyneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-20330341355394399662016-09-08T20:25:57.089-07:002016-09-08T20:25:57.089-07:00[The Second] Anonymous September 7, 2016 at 7:29 A...[The Second] Anonymous September 7, 2016 at 7:29 AM: <i>The balance of payment constraint is the biggest single constraint on economic growth, particularly in developing countries.</i><br /><br />That's like saying the fact that I haven't won a lottery - gotten free money - is the biggest constraint against my being rich. No kidding. Is that an argument for quitting my job and concentrating on begging better? But confused by enough irrelevant complications, serious grown ups can and do advocate similar ideas on an (inter)national scale. <br /><br />Daniel Marmur: <i>can there be a situation where you can't achieve full employment with fiscal stimulus without encountering a situation of continuous and growing depreciation of your currency? (aka ever growing inflation).</i><br /><br />Quite right that currency depreciation is the/a "natural" trade effect of expansion. Abba Lerner agreed; his analysis was basically a "worst case analysis". He also pointed out that arguing against "fiscal stimulus" (= not strangling yourself) this way is arguing against prosperity from any source whatsoever. Lerner's reply to this argument, (which is thus an argument against prosperity) - see his books, esp Economics of Employment was: <b>"SO WHAT?"</b>. Neil & the first Anonymous are right.<br /><br />For the "AKA" equation of depreciation with "ever growing inflation" is wrong, wrong, wrong. They aren't the same thing. They will only roughly equate if the country is a basket case to begin with. As Anonymous September 7, 2016 at 6:21 AM says, "If a country relies on imports to function and not starve then it isn't trade they need but charity". <br /><br />Basket case countries are far fewer and less populous than those which have been convinced to follow "I am a basket case" logic by such specious mainstream arguments, whose errors have been exposed by MMT / FF for decades. <br /><br />Daniel Marmur: <i>and thats why international clearing union is required in order to lift poor countries from poverty.</i><br /><br />Like the biggest poor country in the world, where millions starved etc in the 20th century? (sarcasm)China was so lucky to have in international clearing union welfare agency to make it rich, rather than following the foolish path of self-development.(/sarcasm). In the real world, relying on the kindness of strangers - thinking it is necessary when it is not - is a very, very foolish and dangerous idea - but sadly widespread and destructive.Calgacushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06031818010224747000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-74607403840097732582016-09-07T10:13:42.419-07:002016-09-07T10:13:42.419-07:00I would say the biggest constraints on developing ...I would say the biggest constraints on developing countries is corruption and how they run their domestic economy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-53413440687032156662016-09-07T07:29:52.817-07:002016-09-07T07:29:52.817-07:00On this one, Daniel is right, while Neil and the o...On this one, Daniel is right, while Neil and the other Anonymous (I'll get a name soon) are wrong. The balance of payment constraint is the biggest single constraint on economic growth, particularly in developing countries. As an economy grows, demand for imports will rise due to increased demand for consumption goods, as well as increased use of intermediate goods. If exports do not rise to compensate for the increased demand for imports, then either the country must borrow on the global capital market to finance a trade deficit, which in turn leads to the repayment of debt and repatriation of profits from FDI, merely delaying the balance-of-payment crisis, or the country must go without the imports, which will lead to either slower growth, higher inflation, or both. Devaluation, while it may be effective in developed countries, is usually ineffective in developing countries due to issues Daniel identified with the elasticities of imports and exports. Devaluation in developing countries will usually lead to a recession, inflation, or both.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-77506896290408483892016-09-07T07:20:23.397-07:002016-09-07T07:20:23.397-07:00to fill it takes time and when we are speaking abo...to fill it takes time and when we are speaking about time its can take 15-20 or even 30 years.<br /><br />and thats why international clearing union is required in order to lift poor countries from poverty.disequilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760922141392402211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-55939780425343700962016-09-07T06:21:50.890-07:002016-09-07T06:21:50.890-07:00But if imports are too expensive, the domestic eco...But if imports are too expensive, the domestic economy grows to fill the demand there is for those imported goods that are now too expensive. If a country relies on imports to function and not starve then it isn't trade they need but charity, in which case without aid they are screwed no matter what.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-71861995478105298412016-09-07T05:51:02.340-07:002016-09-07T05:51:02.340-07:00Maybe they will but even if uou will sell lets say...Maybe they will but even if uou will sell lets say bread for cheaper prices there is no that much chance you will sell wnough to compensate for higher import prices. disequilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760922141392402211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-67197271878765067932016-09-07T05:21:31.218-07:002016-09-07T05:21:31.218-07:00I don't follow, are you saying no other countr...I don't follow, are you saying no other country will buy another countries cheaper goods?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-32311985000116738212016-09-07T04:43:06.338-07:002016-09-07T04:43:06.338-07:00Its only if both demand for exports and demand for...Its only if both demand for exports and demand for imports are relatievly demand elastic but if for example your main export is basic food and agriculture even if the price of imports will increase and the price of your exports will decrease it will not attract much buyers for your productsdisequilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760922141392402211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-43062160546110213042016-09-07T02:14:26.088-07:002016-09-07T02:14:26.088-07:00With depreciation of your currency demand for impo...With depreciation of your currency demand for imports will fall because the exchange rate falls. As import demand falls, domestic demand rises which will halt fiscal stimulus. I can't see continued depreciation happening under a well managed floating exchange currency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-31259574844167876062016-09-06T17:02:04.002-07:002016-09-06T17:02:04.002-07:00there is good part in your article
Poor whites an...there is good part in your article<br /><br />Poor whites and people of other ethnicity are also subjected to this system of social control. Because if poor whites or others get out of line, they will be given the worst possible treatment, they will be treated just like poor blacks. <br /><br /><br />thats the point they are so so obssesed with race so they cant even see how much its about economic class issue its not about persecution of black people but persecution of poor people.<br /><br />but because they are so into their identity politics they are too blind to see the real truth here.<br /><br />disequilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760922141392402211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-35913372903196413372016-09-06T16:59:36.088-07:002016-09-06T16:59:36.088-07:00This blog shall serve as the (temporary) headquart...This blog shall serve as the (temporary) headquarters for our plans to take over the world... I mean.. spread this movement. :)Kainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841689865415250256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-44575134099655661962016-09-06T11:35:26.970-07:002016-09-06T11:35:26.970-07:00ok i understand that you dont get my question beca...ok i understand that you dont get my question because techincally you are right and i am not speaking about technical account right here and no a country never have a constraint in a sense that its cant pay things in its own currency its always solvent in its own currency dont get me wrong on that.<br /><br />let me again rephrase my question<br /><br />can there be a situation where you cant achieve full employment with fiscal stimulus without encountaring a situation of continius and growing depreciation of your currency? (aka ever growing inflation).<br /><br />because when the demand for imports is higher than the demand for exports part of your fiscal stimulus will absorbed not by the local economy but by imports,and in turn since imports are more attractive than exports (in this hypothetical economy) it will create a situation where there will be an ever continuing depreciation of your currency (in case you are trying to achieve full employment by fiscal stimulus) because your exports are relatively unattractive compare to imports from another country and devlaution will not change much to attractivness of your exports because your exports are relatively demand inelastic while your imports relatively demand elastic.<br /><br />now can this situation happen yes or no?<br /><br /> <br />disequilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760922141392402211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-64276978125224289522016-09-06T11:03:52.051-07:002016-09-06T11:03:52.051-07:00If demand for imports is higher than demand for ex...If demand for imports is higher than demand for exports in local currency terms then that means foreigners are saving the difference in the local currency. Otherwise demand for imports *cannot* be higher than demand for exports in local currency terms.<br /><br />That's the bit people struggle with. If the right sort of money and the foreign saver isn't there, then the deal simply doesn't happen and there is a reduction in import demand automatically. That's what a floating exchange rate guarantees, because there is no convertibility into anything other than itself.<br /><br />The problem is the artificial accounting border around the physical country, when in fact there is no such border for a currency. Most can be held anywhere by anybody. So there is no material difference between somebody holding Sterling in Birmingham, England than somebody holding Sterling in Birmingham, Alabama. Both are saving, and both are contributing to a paradox of thrift by doing so. NeilWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11565959939525324309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-15684136473119232292016-09-06T07:30:00.732-07:002016-09-06T07:30:00.732-07:00It seems you object to the concept of "instit...It seems you object to the concept of "institutional" or "systemic" racism. I'm all for frank and open discussions of terminology, but I think it's less helpful to object to a phrase without suggesting a replacement.<br /><br />So what, would you suggest as a better term for the phenomenon at work here: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2010/07/26/fourteen-examples-systemic-racism-us-criminal-justice-system<br /><br />I mean, to my eyes, "systemic racism" does seem to fit in a pretty straightforward way, but I'm always interested in hearing the sorts of phrases other people can generate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-49707937342307379392016-09-06T07:00:09.985-07:002016-09-06T07:00:09.985-07:00ok lets rephrase it if your government want to cre...ok lets rephrase it if your government want to create enough demand in order create full employment while the demand for imports is higher than the demand for your exports what will happen in this case?disequilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760922141392402211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-90703742333191928622016-09-06T06:50:09.204-07:002016-09-06T06:50:09.204-07:00Demand is desire plus the means to pay - which end...Demand is desire plus the means to pay - which end-to-end internationally means that the person selling has to be able to receive the money they want to receive, and the person buying has to be able to use the money they want to spend.<br /><br />The finance system matches those desires and creates international demand.<br /><br />If it can't, then 'no deal' and the transaction never happens. <br /><br />Just like the unemployed can never get hired because they don't have the right sort of money to create the demand that would get them hired. NeilWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11565959939525324309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-60048534812386256482016-09-06T06:46:25.902-07:002016-09-06T06:46:25.902-07:00"Should add as a Green yes we do argue for op..."Should add as a Green yes we do argue for open borders but only really when you have equality between countries"<br /><br />Still doesn't work. As the UK demonstrates. You have the brain drain to London and the regions devastated. It's hard enough getting the balance right within a currency zone never mind between them.<br /><br />The arguments for open borders are the arguments for World Government. So why are the Greens standing for national government if they don't believe in the concept. NeilWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11565959939525324309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-19526763900799634532016-09-05T16:58:54.026-07:002016-09-05T16:58:54.026-07:00We may not always see eye to eye, LK, but this Yan...We may not always see eye to eye, LK, but this Yankee finds all these planks agreeable. This part in particular...<br /><br />"(6) an Old Left politics should be strongly pro-nuclear family, and be able to address the serious issue of social breakdown, divorce and single parent families, with humane policies free from right-wing viciousness or free market economics."<br /><br />...is gospel.SHNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-37008388252515446032016-09-05T16:22:35.970-07:002016-09-05T16:22:35.970-07:00Employment guarantees are so old paradigm. Only af...Employment guarantees are so old paradigm. Only after the new paradigm's necessity is cognited on (Grace as in monetary Gifting and Grace as in granting of beingness) will a semblance of actual stability return and austerity and xenophobia lose their pernicious grip on the mind of Mankind.teach101https://www.blogger.com/profile/01127266596634625181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-68452554365840533042016-09-05T16:07:26.040-07:002016-09-05T16:07:26.040-07:00Here we go:
https://www.facebook.com/realistleft
...Here we go:<br />https://www.facebook.com/realistleft<br /><br />I'll start filling it out.Kainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841689865415250256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-69204804072317015152016-09-05T15:59:58.097-07:002016-09-05T15:59:58.097-07:00Thanks for the shout-out on the alternative left F...Thanks for the shout-out on the alternative left Facebook page. Look forward to seeing old Left on Facebook. It's desperately needed.The Alternative Lefthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06860796776058970124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-43753053824544663302016-09-05T12:15:02.598-07:002016-09-05T12:15:02.598-07:00Indeed, I was part of Green Leaves (was one of the...Indeed, I was part of Green Leaves (was one of the arguments we were making) But then that also goes for all 'Western' re Neoliberal/Ordoliberal states. <br /><br />I was a bit annoyed with my own party (we are actually quite euroskeptic as we don't do centralisation) saying the EU isn't 'perfect' downplaying the issues with it (knowing exactly the problems) but they were right that Westminster isn't any better. <br /><br />Andy Blatchfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05196261322445607791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-10578675452300499372016-09-05T11:51:02.410-07:002016-09-05T11:51:02.410-07:00Should add as a Green yes we do argue for open bor...Should add as a Green yes we do argue for open borders but only really when you have equality between countries (the original EU states were pretty equal so not an issue) once they added in the Eastern states it was no goer. There is a BUT though the argument for us is that it is open borders if you are rich enough and that just isn't fair or right.<br />Andy Blatchfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05196261322445607791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-39426774982017927172016-09-05T11:37:22.068-07:002016-09-05T11:37:22.068-07:00I quite agree with you there. It's why I don&#...I quite agree with you there. It's why I don't argue for throwing up walls/borders as it won't work as it's treating a symptom not the cause. <br />The economy is not separate from the enviroment.<br />The only way to sort it is to push for equality in those countries which means massive help but as you may have noted this bunch of incompetents want to cut foreign 'aid'. Help on climate change/economy to them is an imperative even just as self protection, climate change is driving even more poverty (crop failures etc) and is only going to get worse.Andy Blatchfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05196261322445607791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-37161553734877269462016-09-05T10:32:22.786-07:002016-09-05T10:32:22.786-07:00The EU is in terminal decline. It won't last 5...The EU is in terminal decline. It won't last 5 years in its current form. Possibly as early as next year more movements for separation may appear.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.com