Have you seen the BBC documentary on Nye Bevan and forming the NHS?
Was very fascinating. The NHS was viciously opposed by many British people who thought - no joke - that was a Trojan Horse for communism in the country. It was not easy at all for the British government to implement it.
Could you make a post with some sort of bibliography on the Old Left and its ideology/positions? Also, do you think someone could be a leftist on political and economic issues but have conservative/Christian positions on social issues or are those contradictory?
I am really getting annoyed at this position juggling and ideological ownership of issues. If social conservatives are looking for a new bandwagon to inject their retrograde views in and present themselves as "progressives" it is futile. Now that rat can be smelled at an instant.
Here's another perspective on whether the Old Left was socially conservative or not: who cares? Social conservatives have a way about them which is abominable: you extend them a finger and they take the whole hand. They would certainly attempt at undermining the moral progress which has been hard fought for at their expense. They would force their homophobia and "pro-life" obsession on people. Those who want a theocracy should be firmly told to put a sock in it.
When considering the Old Left I think it should occur to those who do it that certain positions some may have had within it are no longer relevant, or tenable. The conservatism regarding social issues is one of them. Conservatives today have a monopoly on skepticism towards immigration, all in a despicable package of reactionary views. Any modern pragmatic and progressive political ideology would have to wrestle this away from conservatism and make it a legitimate concern not just for reactionaries. Regressive leftism and reactionary conservatism are both fueling each other.
Where do you get this stuff that social conservatives are looking for a bandwagon to masquerade themselves? Obviously you cannot accept other people's views, thats not very progressive and tolerant of you now is it?
I just asked a simple question, you didnt have to go into a raging monologue. Why would you think that someone who has Christian views will want to impose them on others? And why is that you say conservatives have a monopoly on immigration issues? I hear both views coming out on that issue and I think that anyone who does not see that mass immigration is dangerous, then he is really blind.
So calm down and lets have a civilised discussion. And my question to LK still stands. Anyone else wants to pinch in pleas do, but dont judge or start insulting other people for their views.
if the meaning of social conservative is imposing religion and religious values on the society i dont think that you will find many people which want both even though you still can find catholic dinasours which want to combine both.
if the meaning of social conservatism is the opposition to toxic identity politics opposition to post modernism and opposition to unrestriced immigration and the support of the notion that a country should care first and for all about its own citizens and nationals (in reasonable boundaries of course), instead of caring about loonie internationalist cosmopolitian ideas while neglecting their own population.
then in this case you have at least 2 people who think that its not contradicting each other(LK and myself).
also you may find if we are speaking about the UK some high tories and old labour guys which will agree as well i believe.
By conservative I mean people who have religious values, people that believe in the family, people who think that the government should try to protect national identity and culture and put the welfare of its own citizens first. Of course it should not impose values on anyone, thats not what I meant.
I guess you've answered my question. I'm a Christian myself and i find myself in agreement with leftist ideas, not of the modern left, and post keynesian theory.
"do you think someone could be a leftist on political and economic issues but have conservative/Christian positions on social issues or are those contradictory?"
No, it is not contradictory.
Such people would probably need to identify as "Old Left", however, or as a socially conservative Christian Socialist.
Daniel fingers why I think support for gay marriage is the true conservative position. People forming families and relying on each other is what conservatives are supposed to want. It gets miced up with religion alas. And that people on both sides of the issue see law as a way to express approval or disapproval.
Have you seen the BBC documentary on Nye Bevan and forming the NHS?
ReplyDeleteWas very fascinating. The NHS was viciously opposed by many British people who thought - no joke - that was a Trojan Horse for communism in the country. It was not easy at all for the British government to implement it.
No, haven't seen that one. Will have a look for it.
DeleteHey LK,
ReplyDeleteCould you make a post with some sort of bibliography on the Old Left and its ideology/positions? Also, do you think someone could be a leftist on political and economic issues but have conservative/Christian positions on social issues or are those contradictory?
I am really getting annoyed at this position juggling and ideological ownership of issues. If social conservatives are looking for a new bandwagon to inject their retrograde views in and present themselves as "progressives" it is futile. Now that rat can be smelled at an instant.
DeleteHere's another perspective on whether the Old Left was socially conservative or not: who cares? Social conservatives have a way about them which is abominable: you extend them a finger and they take the whole hand. They would certainly attempt at undermining the moral progress which has been hard fought for at their expense. They would force their homophobia and "pro-life" obsession on people. Those who want a theocracy should be firmly told to put a sock in it.
When considering the Old Left I think it should occur to those who do it that certain positions some may have had within it are no longer relevant, or tenable. The conservatism regarding social issues is one of them. Conservatives today have a monopoly on skepticism towards immigration, all in a despicable package of reactionary views. Any modern pragmatic and progressive political ideology would have to wrestle this away from conservatism and make it a legitimate concern not just for reactionaries. Regressive leftism and reactionary conservatism are both fueling each other.
Dude chill ou, whats your problem?
DeleteWhere do you get this stuff that social conservatives are looking for a bandwagon to masquerade themselves? Obviously you cannot accept other people's views, thats not very progressive and tolerant of you now is it?
I just asked a simple question, you didnt have to go into a raging monologue. Why would you think that someone who has Christian views will want to impose them on others? And why is that you say conservatives have a monopoly on immigration issues? I hear both views coming out on that issue and I think that anyone who does not see that mass immigration is dangerous, then he is really blind.
So calm down and lets have a civilised discussion. And my question to LK still stands. Anyone else wants to pinch in pleas do, but dont judge or start insulting other people for their views.
if the meaning of social conservative is imposing religion and religious values on the society i dont think that you will find many people which want both even though you still can find catholic dinasours which want to combine both.
Deleteif the meaning of social conservatism is the opposition to toxic identity politics opposition to post modernism and opposition to unrestriced immigration
and the support of the notion that a country should care first and for all about its own citizens and nationals (in reasonable boundaries of course), instead of caring about loonie internationalist cosmopolitian ideas while neglecting their own population.
then in this case you have at least 2 people who think that its not contradicting each other(LK and myself).
also you may find if we are speaking about the UK some high tories and old labour guys which will agree as well i believe.
Thank you for the response Daniel.
DeleteBy conservative I mean people who have religious values, people that believe in the family, people who think that the government should try to protect national identity and culture and put the welfare of its own citizens first. Of course it should not impose values on anyone, thats not what I meant.
I guess you've answered my question. I'm a Christian myself and i find myself in agreement with leftist ideas, not of the modern left, and post keynesian theory.
AnonymousJuly 10, 2016 at 7:25 AM
Delete"do you think someone could be a leftist on political and economic issues but have conservative/Christian positions on social issues or are those contradictory?"
No, it is not contradictory.
Such people would probably need to identify as "Old Left", however, or as a socially conservative Christian Socialist.
Daniel fingers why I think support for gay marriage is the true conservative position. People forming families and relying on each other is what conservatives are supposed to want. It gets miced up with religion alas. And that people on both sides of the issue see law as a way to express approval or disapproval.
ReplyDeleteExactly my thoughts ken b
Delete