tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post8437330596558967795..comments2024-03-28T17:08:15.784-07:00Comments on Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Realist Alternative to the Modern Left: A Day in Rothbardian Anarcho-Capitalist ParadiseLord Keyneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-15612241275830346052021-09-23T21:56:15.876-07:002021-09-23T21:56:15.876-07:00Another problem I could see happening is with laws...Another problem I could see happening is with laws. With no state, who would write laws? Some laws like no theft, raping, murder etc. would obviously be enforced by all private courts but more nuanced ones like what types of buissness conduct constitute fraud would likely be kept confidential and unknown to the general public. Even if the results of court cases were published, there's no reason why other private courts would need to follow them as a form of judicial precedent. BZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02639095987526290064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-64407646334060338882021-09-23T21:06:08.417-07:002021-09-23T21:06:08.417-07:00I did some searching about Gene Callahan and I cou...I did some searching about Gene Callahan and I couldn't find any blog posts written about him. The only post I saw that confirmed that he was an ex ancap was on some article written by an actual Ancap who was talking about him critqueing Rothbardian philosphy. BZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02639095987526290064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-60309466441372022812021-09-23T20:58:13.965-07:002021-09-23T20:58:13.965-07:00Another problem with Anarcho Capitalism is how cou...Another problem with Anarcho Capitalism is how courts would work. In an Ancap system, all courts would have to be Arbitration Agencies which are essentially private courts whose judges or juries have been selected by both parties with their consent have agreed to whatever decision the arbtritator will make. However, what's stopping a single party from just refusing to go to court? In a state, the accusing or defending party would then take it a state court where the matter would be decided without the consent of the party who doesn't want to partake in the judicial process. However, in an Ancap system, there would be no public courts so a party could just refuse to go to court. There would also be no higher level or a supreme court so appeals would essentially be impossible if both parties agreed during a trial to adher to the decision makers outcome. This means that if one party feels like their case isn't being decided fairly, they would be unable to appeal in a higher level court. Even if both parties agreed that they could appeal the case in a seperate AA, there would be no state sanctioned "higher court" that could legally override the decision of the lower court. BZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02639095987526290064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-2668197810339965992014-08-31T19:20:19.667-07:002014-08-31T19:20:19.667-07:00Sorry guys. This establishes Rothbard believed in ...Sorry guys. This establishes Rothbard believed in intelligence differences between races. That is not proof of animus. Philippe alleged hatred. <br />I believe dogs are smarter than cats. I prefer cats. <br />Besides, what if the evidence vindicates Rothbard,s belief? What if someone proves this? Would that mean anyone who accepts evidence that ex hypothesi is conclusive is racist? No, it proves your criteria are wrong. <br />I think Rothbard had the condescending racism not uncommon in his generation, but you are nowhere near proving hatred. Ken Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207803092348071005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-50180955056772021802014-08-31T10:29:56.932-07:002014-08-31T10:29:56.932-07:00It's pretty obvious that all that would happen...It's pretty obvious that all that would happen in an anarcho capitalist society (if such a word is not a contradiction in terms) is that the strong would re-assert themselves and then you'd have some kind of proto-state which would then evolve....and you're back where you started.<br /><br />I don't even think the anarcho capitalists believe in their own vision. It's just a rhetorical lever designed to be used against liberal society, in order to force it whereever possible in a more propertarian direction. These so called libertarians would have been quite happy as wealthy men under Pinochet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-66951710575533007362014-08-09T23:58:54.698-07:002014-08-09T23:58:54.698-07:00Yep. We already tried this see http://en.wikipedi...Yep. We already tried this see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto.<br />and the entire of history of the Grafenkönige which ironically lead to the Habsburg rule who created and funded the Austrian School of economics to attack the German School. <br /><br />Libertarianism simply cover for the far-right reactionaries who supported fascism but because of WWII had to change their tune here and Americanize their fascist program. <br /><br />All you have to is see this is to look at far right characters like Willis Carto operating behind the scenes of the "New Right," "John Birchers" and all those "freedom loving" Anti- Communists to see that American Libertarianism is Neo-Reaction and ultimately fascist. <br /><br />The political goal of libertarianism is to re-instate chattle slavery within a industrial society which is the economic program of the fascist state. <br /><br />If you doubt me see <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipXlhWZfWms" rel="nofollow"> this video</a>.<br /><br />It is very clear that Libertarianism means no human rights are respected but rather the complete Alienability and commodification of human beings into a purely "utilitarian" totalitarian market system. <br /><br />Libertarianism stands for nothing but the liberty to be sold on the open market like a bag of potatoes. <br />Septeus7https://www.blogger.com/profile/00337900484297284276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-44258470620581837102014-08-08T14:23:40.678-07:002014-08-08T14:23:40.678-07:00If you are suffering from minachist or anachist di...If you are suffering from minachist or anachist disease is not interesting for the rest of us but you do not understand the Nordic and especially the Swedish model. Ownership has never been decisive in the Nordic model, but rather the control and distribution of property and natural resources. These countries have practiced so called "functional socialism", a term (I quote from wiki because I have no time to write special for you), "which was coined by Gunnar Adler-Karlsson 1965 during a lecture on Latin American students on the theme" The Swedish economy as a middle ground. "concept came then be further explored in the book functional socialism: an alternative to communism and capitalism (1967).In this book described Adler-Karlsson how functional socialism was supposed to work in practice: <br /><br />"Instead, let us take our current capitalist one after another of their proprietary functions, so that the few decades remains formally as kings, but in real terms that more or less powerless symbols of a bygone era. "<br />- Gunnar Adler-Karlsson: Function Socialism (1967) <br />The book theorizes about socialism, and property rights, which the author sees as a series of functions between different people, bureaucracy and organizations. "Functional Socialism" became a term for the policy that the Swedish Social Democrats already practiced for a long time, which is a main theme of the Adler-Karlsson. <br /><br />Adler-Karlsson himself derives his term to Östen Unden and his "Some comments on the concept formation in law" (1928), and Swedish rem (1927-41). Undén argued that ownership as a concept can be understood as a functional concept and distinguished from the concept of substance. Adler-Karlsson modify this view, inter alia, in light of the classical natural law, arguing that socialization debate ambiguity due to the ownership regarded as indivisible. Instead, Adler-Karlsson see ownership as a number of related functions. <br /><br />The book features nine counts of ownership up as Adler-Karlsson believes to be most important: <br /><br />Decisions regarding production with existing fixed capital resources <br />investment decisions <br />Decisions regarding the utilization of labor <br />Wage Decisions <br />Decisions regarding the distribution of profits <br />Redistribution Decisions <br />Decisions about economic equalization <br />Control of the concentration of power <br />Balancing economic and other values <br />Socializing ownership functions Adler-Karlsson looks like a middle ground between the Eastern bloc and Western bloc former political system, then it is a mixed economy. Among economy can depend on the number and degree of socialized functions may be more or less drawn at capitalism or communism. <br /><br />Adler-Karlsson's analysis of the function of socialism can be seen as a contribution to the 1960's so-called convergence theories (Jan Tinbergen, John Kenneth Galbraith), who examined the parallel emergence of a market economy elements of the communist planned economies and elements of economic planning in the Western market economies." Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13321416654318469280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-27946333519961108672014-08-08T14:01:28.863-07:002014-08-08T14:01:28.863-07:00"Who legitimately owns what in the first plac..."Who legitimately owns what in the first place." Yes,an interesting point Phillippe,it must be the the first living organisms, which took possession of the things on earth at the first place according to some "natural right law.It must be,some unicellular organism.I get it,the Anarco Lunatarians feels some kind of kinship with them, on an emotional and intellectual level.They feel they are the only true ancestors and only rightful heirs of those nice little creeps and therefore of course have the right to inherit everything these nice little creeps once owned,it explains a lot! Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13321416654318469280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-41043796821573448202014-08-08T10:15:37.745-07:002014-08-08T10:15:37.745-07:00Phillipe, I would say that 1920's America is a...Phillipe, I would say that 1920's America is a good example, with the exception of the despicable racism that existed back then. Socially it was not a good time<br />I am surprised by what Rothbard wrote, I didn't know that about him, It makes him even more despicable in my eyes. <br /><br />I would say that an ideal society is something like 1920's America without the racism, and a slightly larger government one that fights depressions. regulates pollution, and embraces women in the workforce. kind of like the 1980's America, except with lower marginal tax rates for the poor and middle class. Oh, also with universal health care. But abolish all useless regulations. Get rid of occupational licensure, Close down pointless departments. Don;t subsidize housing <br /><br />LK, on Hill, don't be absurd. Hill's benefit from government action was second or third order, not in the form of direct subsidies. We all "benefitted" for example, from Britain and America winning World War II along with Russia.<br /><br />Everyone, its okay to pick and choose. So when I say I like certain parts of the late nineteeth century period and 1920's period, it doesn't mean I like ALL of it. So please, lets not use "Oh so you're a fan of racial discrimination and child labor argument" I would bear in mind that the Golden Age of post World War II capitalism also had (at least in America, I'm ignorant when it comes to Britain) discrimination and women barred from the workforce. I'm sure social democrats and progressives don't approve.Edwardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-8735942500133109612014-08-08T07:30:49.266-07:002014-08-08T07:30:49.266-07:00the second quote I posted above is from Rothbard&#...the second quote I posted above is from Rothbard's glowing review of Charle's Murray's 'The Bell Curve'<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard#Race_and_intelligencePhilippenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-74099910191268951712014-08-08T07:26:50.003-07:002014-08-08T07:26:50.003-07:00On the Tutsi - Hutu quote: yeah, it is not looking...On the Tutsi - Hutu quote: yeah, it is not looking good for Rothbard at all!<br /><br />I have to say even I am disgusted and amazed - even though I've read a lot of Rothbard's work. One sick bast*rd.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-31444624992174742092014-08-08T07:22:02.213-07:002014-08-08T07:22:02.213-07:00"Essentially, I mean the almost self-evident ...<i>"Essentially, I mean the almost self-evident fact that individuals, ethnic groups, and races differ among themselves in intelligence and in many other traits, and that intelligence, as well as less controversial traits of temperament, are in large part hereditary."</i><br /><br />I was not aware of this -- and, yes, you are right. <br /><br />It does seem to show that Rothbard believed in racial differences in the hard 19th century sense as intellectual and maybe moral differences between races largely hereditary and (presumably) impossible to change: that is a type of hard racism. Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-8155656826036268982014-08-08T07:19:17.606-07:002014-08-08T07:19:17.606-07:00“The Tutsi are an Ethiopid, Nilotic people. The Hu...“The Tutsi are an Ethiopid, Nilotic people. The Hutu, on the other hand, are short, squat Bantu, a closer approximation to what used to be called "Negro" in America. "Negroes" are now called "black," but the problem here is that the skin color of both the Tutsi and the Hutu are much the same. The real issue, as in most other cases, is not skin color but various character traits of different population groups. The crucial point is that, in both Rwanda and Burundi, Hutus and Tutsis have coexisted for centuries; the Tutsi are about 15 percent of the total population, the Hutu about 85 percent. And yet consistently, over the centuries, the Tutsi have totally dominated, and even enserfed, the Hutu. How are we to explain this consistent pattern of domination by a small minority? Could it be – dare I say it – that along with being taller, slimmer, more graceful and noble-looking, the Tutsi are far more i-n-t-e-l-l-i-g-e-n-t than the Hutu? And yet what else explains this overriding fact?<br /><br />http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard74.html<br />Philippenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-53396984831602448512014-08-08T06:15:06.363-07:002014-08-08T06:15:06.363-07:00"referred to blacks as naturally inferior,&qu...<i>"referred to blacks as naturally inferior,"</i><br /><br />OK. That would seem to be good evidence he was racist. But where did he say this, out of interest?Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-46403966476109010092014-08-08T06:12:33.401-07:002014-08-08T06:12:33.401-07:00Rothbard wrote a number of racist articles, publis...Rothbard wrote a number of racist articles, published racist propaganda, collaborated with racist groups, campaigned against civil rights legislation, referred to blacks as naturally inferior, parasites, looters; he mocked and insulted leaders of the civil rights movement (he hated Martin Luther King especially), and professed support for the Confederacy...Philippenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-32625431091403219842014-08-08T05:42:58.123-07:002014-08-08T05:42:58.123-07:00Matt Bruenig and Gene Callahan have both written a...Matt Bruenig and Gene Callahan have both written a series of very interesting posts/articles critiquing right-libertarianism/anarcho-capitalism (from different perspectives - Matt is an egalitarian lefty and Gene is an ex-ancap conservative). They are really worth reading.<br /><br />Here are links to Matt's posts, I'll link to Gene's later:<br /><br />(in no particular order)<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/03/28/violence-vouchers-a-descriptive-account-of-property/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/10/03/non-aggression-never-does-any-argumentative-work-at-any-time/<br /><br />http://www.demos.org/blog/11/17/13/libertarians-are-huge-fans-initiating-force<br /><br />http://www.demos.org/blog/10/28/13/libertarians-are-huge-fans-economic-coercion<br /><br />http://www.demos.org/blog/1/29/14/what-world-following-non-aggression-principle-looks<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/02/01/libertarian-julian-sanchez-agrees-non-aggression-is-circular/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/04/20/fun-game-identify-the-aggressor-in-this-animated-gif/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/05/07/property-and-conflict/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/03/29/no-violence-but-personal-violence/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/05/13/anti-liberty-economic-regulations-a-dialogue/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/06/22/pick-up-basketball-and-grab-what-you-can/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/02/04/initial-appropriation-a-dialogue/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2012/09/19/failed-philosophies-of-property-rights/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/05/30/locke-and-hobhouse-on-coercion/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/05/09/desert-theory-rehashed/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/04/12/salvaging-non-aggression-for-egalitarianism/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/03/07/what-do-voluntary/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/01/29/how-a-reductio-ad-absurdum-works/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/01/12/the-other-move-on-property/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/01/12/how-the-property-is-coercive-violence-move-functions-in-the-debate/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/11/16/section-8-vouchers-and-the-myth-of-ownership/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/11/10/no-serious-there-is-no-non-political-definition-of-theft/<br /><br />http://www.demos.org/blog/8/21/13/fun-times-libertarianism<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/08/17/the-nozickian-case-for-rawls-difference-principle/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/07/20/on-process-and-scarcity/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/06/27/intro-to-distributive-justice/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/06/19/a-circularity-in-just-deserts/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/05/16/my-favorite-libertarian-argument/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/04/13/the-argument-against-inequality-as-such/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/04/04/the-late-nozick-warmed-up-to-coercive-violence/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2013/03/14/how-to-argue-for-public-goods/<br /><br />http://mattbruenig.com/2014/08/02/capitalism-whack-a-mole/Philippenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-28941909384255257292014-08-08T05:29:42.187-07:002014-08-08T05:29:42.187-07:00"Rothbard to write his deranged and dishonest...<i>"Rothbard to write his deranged and dishonest drivel was his pathological hatred of poor black people, so that should come as no surprise."</i><br /><br />Philippe, normally I agree with you, but this seems a bit extreme.<br /><br />But what is the evidence that Rothbard hated African Americans?Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-86681869038400507252014-08-08T05:22:00.285-07:002014-08-08T05:22:00.285-07:00"I believe that for many Rothbardians the sal..."I believe that for many Rothbardians the sale of justice to the highest bidder is a feature not a bug of their system." <br /><br />The main thing that motivated Rothbard to write his deranged and dishonest drivel was his pathological hatred of poor black people, so that should come as no surprise.Philippenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-35693646911580042122014-08-08T05:15:01.558-07:002014-08-08T05:15:01.558-07:00Could you give us some examples?Could you give us some examples?Philippenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-37954419344410144282014-08-08T01:50:38.997-07:002014-08-08T01:50:38.997-07:00lol... so according to Major_Idiot if some rich gu...lol... so according to Major_Idiot if some rich guy burns down your house, killing your family members, if he can bribe you not to sue, then he has provided "greater value to other people"?Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-63735515189671306892014-08-08T01:48:46.447-07:002014-08-08T01:48:46.447-07:00Out of interest, would a left libertarian society ...Out of interest, would a left libertarian society have criminal laws? <br /><br />If so, would it have police forces to enforce these laws?Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-61211666483307086072014-08-07T17:21:45.577-07:002014-08-07T17:21:45.577-07:00I believe that for many Rothbardians the sale of j...I believe that for many Rothbardians the sale of justice to the highest bidder is a feature not a bug of their system. When I challenged major freedom on this on Murphy's blog, he opined that the rich got that way by providing greater value to other people, and so are deserving of privileged access to "justice". He certainly agreed to my characterization, that under anarcho capitalist justice all dollars are equal not all people.Ken Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207803092348071005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-77841133000589289852014-08-07T14:27:47.239-07:002014-08-07T14:27:47.239-07:00Right. Even in cases, say, where tolls or private ...Right. Even in cases, say, where tolls or private toll roads exist, the state laws and regulations on diving safety still apply. I think in other cases, as you say, the government merely pays someone to run it or leases the right to run the road.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-16415802259071538802014-08-07T14:23:11.342-07:002014-08-07T14:23:11.342-07:00airports in the UK are run by private companies, b...airports in the UK are run by private companies, but owned by local governments I think.<br /><br />In Denmark the government pays a private company to provide some local fire and ambulance services.<br /><br />Having the government employ private companies is quite different to anarcho-capitalism of course.Philippenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-84468787051500353512014-08-07T13:09:25.516-07:002014-08-07T13:09:25.516-07:00The James Jerome Hill example doesn't stand up...The James Jerome Hill example doesn't stand up to serious examination:<br /><br />http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2011/07/government-intervention-james-j-hill.htmlLord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.com