tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post774007799052302507..comments2024-03-28T17:08:15.784-07:00Comments on Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Realist Alternative to the Modern Left: The Success of America’s Command Economy in WWIILord Keyneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-43705331900957160372014-07-30T14:55:13.425-07:002014-07-30T14:55:13.425-07:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Industrial_St...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Industrial_StateDon Macleayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17083015728635699181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-72664935505689198932014-02-28T10:56:45.631-08:002014-02-28T10:56:45.631-08:00Higgs doesn't realise how some of his argument...Higgs doesn't realise how some of his arguments support the Keynesian case.<br /><br />Even "regime uncertainty" is a poor cousin to Keynesian uncertainty, the latter of which is the better concept because it includes uncertainty caused by the private sector itself.<br />the uncertianty Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-77920844743114879722014-02-28T10:35:29.278-08:002014-02-28T10:35:29.278-08:00That was a great article by Higgs. I was an Austri...That was a great article by Higgs. I was an Austrian at the time I first read it, now I am Post-Keynesian but still that article is an influence on me. I focus a lot on private debt and its impact, and Higgs article still means alot to me as it proves the PK (!) point that gov must fill the void of investment and consumption in a slump, and that private dent is bad. WWII wiped out our private sector debt, and with that fresh slate: explosive sustained meaningful growth! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-25643227982115633372013-08-23T05:18:16.998-07:002013-08-23T05:18:16.998-07:00"The point is that for wealth and resources t..."The point is that for wealth and resources to be properly allocated towards productive uses that raise their standard of living and the wealth of society people have to make these decisions in the marketplace"<br /><br />Such a circular argument. Start with the unfounded assertion that unbridled markets are the best solution to all problems and always allocate resources in the best possible way, and then argue that because the state is not an unbridled market it can't allocate resources properly.<br /><br />Right wing "libertarianism" is just a religion believed by particularly gullible people.philnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-46059605812913563462013-08-22T11:11:00.958-07:002013-08-22T11:11:00.958-07:00"My point is basically the one that Mises mad...<i>"My point is basically the one that Mises made in socialist calculation, how can you know whether or not the nationalized industry or services is highly successful, profitable, and really in demand and not just a massive misallocation of wealth and resources"</i><br /><br />You are apparently unaware of what Mises actually thought about nationalised industries:<br /><br />http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2013/03/mises-on-mixed-economies-and-socialism.html<br /><br />The key passage:<br /><br /><i>"If within a society based on private ownership by the means of production some of these means are publicly owned and operated—that is, owned and operated by the government or one of its agencies—this does not make for a mixed system which would combine socialism and capitalism. <b>The fact that the state or municipalities own and operate some plants does not alter the characteristic features of the market economy. These publicly owned and operated enterprises are subject to the sovereignty of the market.</b> They must fit themselves, as buyers of raw materials, equipment, and labor, and as sellers of goods and services, into the scheme of the market economy. They are subject to the laws of the market and thereby depend on the consumers who may or may not patronize them. They must strive for profits or, at least, to avoid losses. The government may cover losses of its plants or shops by drawing on public funds. But this neither eliminates nor mitigates the supremacy of the market; it merely shifts it to another sector. For the means for covering the losses must be raised by the imposition of taxes. But this taxation has its effects on the market and influences the economic structure according to the laws of the market. It is the operation of the market, and not the government collecting the taxes, that decides upon whom the incidence of the taxes falls and how they affect production and consumption. Thus the market, not a government bureau, determines the working of these publicly operated enterprises. "</i><br /><br />Mises, L. 1998. Human Action: A Treatise on Economics. The Scholar's Edition. Mises Institute, Auburn, Ala. pp. 259-260.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-43795628469872094312013-08-22T10:41:55.029-07:002013-08-22T10:41:55.029-07:00No goal posts have been shifted.
My point is basi...No goal posts have been shifted.<br /><br />My point is basically the one that Mises made in socialist calculation, how can you know whether or not the nationalized industry or services is highly successful, profitable, and really in demand and not just a massive misallocation of wealth and resources. There's no way you could know these things for certain, you could only assume them.Daniel Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09452187515473424173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-37533498682432545072013-08-22T07:18:14.905-07:002013-08-22T07:18:14.905-07:00The statement:
"(1) command economy x worked...The statement:<br /><br />"(1) command economy <i>x</i> worked in the sense of actually producing successfully what was planned"<br /><br />could only be synthetic a posteriori, not some vacuous analytic truth, because its negation is perfectly possible, and its truth would be contingent, not necessary.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-33104997919928024602013-08-22T06:36:53.861-07:002013-08-22T06:36:53.861-07:00But, as always, a command economy can be said to w...<em> But, as always, a command economy can be said to work only in the sense that it turns out what the authorities demand</em><br /><br />A shirt can be said to work only in the sense that you can wear it. A radio can be said to work only in the sense that it receives radio signals. In't this a logically vacuous statement?Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17153530634675543954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-48339767965842055222013-08-22T02:30:24.239-07:002013-08-22T02:30:24.239-07:00You're mostly just changing the issues here --...You're mostly just changing the issues here -- shifting the goal posts, which is a logical fallacy.<br /><br />But anyway:<br /><br />(1) I and most people do not regard taxation as theft or an evil. It can be ethically justified under virtually any ethical theory you care to name (Kantian ethics, Rawls' human rights ethics, forms of consequentialism), particularly to deliver public goods like universal health care and public infrastructure.<br /><br />It is also economically justified to deal with the "free rider" problem.<br /><br />Force is the basis of any society that has laws. It would be the basis even of private law in Rothbard's fantasy world:<br /><br />http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2013/06/coercion-is-basis-of-all-market.html<br /><br />(2) Governments are perfectly capable of running profitable nationalised industries or services, so the issue of taxation is irrelevant there.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-66078945348988059812013-08-21T15:06:39.957-07:002013-08-21T15:06:39.957-07:00Of course they're 'highyl successful',...Of course they're 'highyl successful', but theyre not highly successful because of voluntary trade. They're highly successful because of government force, how can they not be highly successful when the only way for them to go out of business is by government legislation or the end of taxation. By these means any business can be 'highly successful' so you prove nothing...<br /><br />If theyre so successful why do they need government force, taxation, and legislation to even exist????Daniel Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09452187515473424173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-57678748345394395882013-08-21T13:06:02.776-07:002013-08-21T13:06:02.776-07:00The idea that a government can never successfully ...The idea that a government can never successfully plan and deliver a good based on private demand for it is a blatant stupidity of Austrians and libertarians. E.g., just look at highly successful nationalised industries, post offices, universal health care systems in Western Europe and many other nations. Only brain washed people would say that governments have not delivered successful post office services for over a century in many nations.<br /><br />As to the success of total command economies, that is a different question, and their success in the real world has been mixed. <br /><br />But since Keynesians do not advocate total command economies you're not scoring any points by arguing that the production of very many things -- like fashionable articles of consumption and so on -- are indeed best left to the private sector. Keynesians agree.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-53276944382734980312013-08-21T12:54:27.914-07:002013-08-21T12:54:27.914-07:00The point is that for wealth and resources to be p...The point is that for wealth and resources to be properly allocated towards productive uses that raise their standard of living and the wealth of society people have to make these decisions in the marketplace, government and its central planners can never efficiently or successfully do this.<br /><br />Yes, they made tanks, warplanes, and navy ships...but consumers were ultimately left without and lived a poorer life because of it..Daniel Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09452187515473424173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-19502997458109464312013-08-21T12:06:01.405-07:002013-08-21T12:06:01.405-07:00Thanks. Perhaps there will be other historians, li...Thanks. Perhaps there will be other historians, like Larry Schweikart Jr. and Burton W. Folsom Jr, that are going to be cited by the right 'libertarians'. Their latest, 'Obama's False History of Public Investment', (Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324635904578644233086643450.html ) can be found in the great bastion of supply side economics, The Wall Street Journal. Of course, there are those like Janeway, Sokloff, and Lamoreaux, who have discussed development as it really happened in the United States in 'Financing Innovation in the United States, 1870 to Present', as opposed to the faith based tale of 'Let the entrepreneurs decide what infrastructure the country needs, and most of the time they will build it themselves'<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07857616719536009725noreply@blogger.com