tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post2796678475998601441..comments2024-03-28T17:08:15.784-07:00Comments on Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Realist Alternative to the Modern Left: The Poststructuralists as Frustrated Marxists-CommunistsLord Keyneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-26317799811408040262015-10-24T14:08:59.315-07:002015-10-24T14:08:59.315-07:00Communist? Well, whenever I apply logic Murphy'...Communist? Well, whenever I apply logic Murphy's crew calls me one! Ken Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207803092348071005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-68197273643590071932015-10-23T03:50:51.415-07:002015-10-23T03:50:51.415-07:00What do you think of Varoufakis identifying as a m...What do you think of Varoufakis identifying as a marxist? Do you have a theory why some very smart people apparently fall for such unhinged lunacy?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-1645526145643867522015-10-22T20:45:22.229-07:002015-10-22T20:45:22.229-07:00Thanks, Ken, B, at least someone appreciated it.
...Thanks, Ken, B, at least someone appreciated it.<br /><br /><i>I never knew you were a Marxist LK.</i><br /><br />lol... that is the result of the Postmodernist view that texts and words have no fixed meaning. Possibly you are a Marxist too, Ken B: for when you describe yourself as "libertarian" you can mean "Communist" by that term.<br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-12986981267662889332015-10-22T17:36:58.927-07:002015-10-22T17:36:58.927-07:00I found this post very interesting. I never knew y...I found this post very interesting. I never knew you were a Marxist LK.<br /><br />;)Ken Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207803092348071005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-45727214829563535492015-10-22T17:32:37.872-07:002015-10-22T17:32:37.872-07:00I understood you perfectly well LK. I understood you perfectly well LK. Ken Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207803092348071005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-55876409274732356042015-10-22T08:03:53.468-07:002015-10-22T08:03:53.468-07:00" if you "did no such thing," as yo...<i>" if you "did no such thing," as you say, then your comment was also very unclear, since you began by agreeing with theillusionist."</i><br /><br />I agreed that I think Marxism -- as a clear and particular economic and political ideology -- is bad. I do not say I thought "Marxist" was just some meaningless epithet or term you can define in any way you like. <br /><br />"Marxist/Communist" is a descriptive term that refers to a clear group of ideologues taking their origin from Marx and Engel's works and based on Marx's economic theory in the 3 volumes of <i>Capital</i>, namely, early Marxists of the 19th century, Marxist-Leninists, Stalinists, Trotskyists, and Maoists. I assume this is clear.<br /><br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-62717523931740511512015-10-22T07:53:51.347-07:002015-10-22T07:53:51.347-07:00"i'm not sure how your characterization a...<i>"i'm not sure how your characterization as "frustrated marxist-communists" holds in any meaningful sense,"</i><br /><br />Of course it holds: Chomsky explains actually why in the video and it is an empirical fact that many of these French Poststructuralists were former Marxists. If you dispute this, then show me evidence against it. <br /><br />They were frustrated revolutionaries and of the 1968 generation -- the soixante-huitards -- and turned to this absurd Poststructuralist radicalism when they became disillusioned with Marxism/Maoism. <br /><br />Again, if you dispute this, then show me evidence against it. <br /><br />And now: notice how you don't even engage with the other major substantive points in the post:<br /><br />(1) what would it mean -- as Barthes seemed to want -- to be "liberated" from modern science? <br /><br />(2) Do you seriously believe this nonsense that texts can never have any fixed meaning?<br /><br />(3) do you dispute that Foucault was fully committed the this "Death of the Author" nonsense?<br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-15372828245555371242015-10-22T07:41:53.151-07:002015-10-22T07:41:53.151-07:00i have already apologized for being unclear. no n...i have already apologized for being unclear. no need to rub it in. if you "did no such thing," as you say, then your comment was also very unclear, since you began by agreeing with theillusionist.<br /><br />you have also misquoted theillusionist by leaving out "many" and thus changing the meaning of their remark.<br /><br />and you are coming off very aggressive at the end there, instead of just explaining.<br /><br />perhaps this was not a good place to come to discuss these matters. apologiesichigoannonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-58058512792996888342015-10-22T07:32:46.688-07:002015-10-22T07:32:46.688-07:00The second comment is poorly phrased and, frankly,...The second comment is poorly phrased and, frankly, it is difficult to even understand.<br /><br />If you are saying that I admitted that "Marxism" or "Marxist" are just "epithets", I did no such thing.<br /><br />TheIllusionist's assertions that Post Keynesians are just "id[e]ological Marxists and many derive a good deal of their work from Marx” is patently untrue. <br /><br /><i>"do you understand the theoretical basis for PKian rejection of those things?"</i><br /><br />Do I understand the "theoretical basis" for Post Keynesian rejection of the labour theory of value and Marxist economics and its vile authoritarian political ideology? Yes, I do . Do you??<br /><br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-42811120452237369732015-10-22T07:13:20.289-07:002015-10-22T07:13:20.289-07:00i should have said. theillusionist hazarded an ans...i should have said. theillusionist hazarded an answer to my first question, which turned out to be the right one based on your agreement after. but both questions were meant to be directed at LK<br /><br />please forgive me for being unclearichigoannonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-89451410115016650172015-10-22T06:52:45.244-07:002015-10-22T06:52:45.244-07:00ichigoanno@October 22, 2015 at 6:47 AM
Is your co...ichigoanno@October 22, 2015 at 6:47 AM<br /><br />Is your comment addressed at me or the TheIllusionist?Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-43351577133861282782015-10-22T06:47:11.868-07:002015-10-22T06:47:11.868-07:00admitting that it is just an epithet saps your arg...admitting that it is just an epithet saps your argument of any strength. that's unfortunate, but maybe we can salvage this. do you understand the theoretical basis for PKian rejection of those things?ichigoannonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-42356969579055286292015-10-21T11:28:05.530-07:002015-10-21T11:28:05.530-07:00Yes, to me Marxism means a badly flawed and wrong ...Yes, to me Marxism means a badly flawed and wrong dogmatic economic theory whose proponents -- when they put it into practice -- produced some of the most vile, brutal and murderous regimes in human history. That I am supposed to not think this -- when all the evidence shows it is true -- is bizarre.<br /> <br />Also, I have to say it must come as a profound shock to most Post Keynesians to be told that they are all or mostly “id[e]ological Marxists and many derive a good deal of their work from Marx” when in fact most of them:<br /><br />(1) reject the labour theory of value, the foundational theory of Marxism (just as indeed Keynes rejected it as well as Michał Kalecki and Joan Robinson, the great founders of the school)<br /><br />(2) reject commodity money (which Marx maintained must always be the basis of money)<br /><br />(3) reject the long-run Classical prices of production of Marxism (unless you are a Sraffian but as King notes they have been expelled from the mainstream Post Keynesian school now)<br /><br />(4) reject command economies<br /><br />(5) reject the nationalisation of all industry<br /><br />(6) reject the abolition of private property<br /><br />(7) reject the imposition of an authoritarian Marxist “dictatorship of the proletariat”<br /><br />(8) reject historical materialism and historical determinism.<br /><br />(9) take their foundational work, not from Marx, but from Keynes (who despised Marxism).<br /><br />But it seems in the comment above we have entered that very "Twilight Zone" Postmodernist world where words – in this case the word “Marxism” – can mean anything you like.<br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-85137774703357592432015-10-21T04:55:03.235-07:002015-10-21T04:55:03.235-07:00"Marxist" means "bad" for LK. ..."Marxist" means "bad" for LK. And poststructuralist means "bad". Unfortunately many post-Keynesians consider themselves idological Marxists and many derive a good deal of their work from Marx. The poststructuralists are "bad" for doing this. The post-Keynesians are "not bad".<br /><br />Why? Something to do with Science and Reason, I think. Science and Reason are "good". And post-Keynesians like Science and Reason. So they are "good". They can be forgiven for "bad" Marx-reading because they are "good" Reason-loving Scientists.<br /><br />Of course we all know what really fractured the left throughout history: factionalism. But ignore that. Instead focus on goodies and baddies. It's easier. TheIllusionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17642837989235595346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-67129337454643788612015-10-20T13:53:34.611-07:002015-10-20T13:53:34.611-07:00i'm not sure how your characterization as &quo...i'm not sure how your characterization as "frustrated marxist-communists" holds in any meaningful sense, except to note that marxism and postmodernism were both major intellectual currents among leftists of the past century, and some people happened to flit between them (among others). worth mentioning also that marxists have been responsible for some of the most thorough and enduring critiques of postmodernism<br /><br />(also, it's not clear what a 'marxist-communist' is or how it differs from a garden-variety marxist or communist)<br /><br />are you using marxist more as an epithet or a descriptive term?ichigoannonoreply@blogger.com