tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post1814072567297535638..comments2024-03-17T00:23:24.896-07:00Comments on Social Democracy for the 21st Century: A Realist Alternative to the Modern Left: Monogamous Marriage is the Basis of Gender EqualityLord Keyneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-57710172845385760582016-09-22T01:31:27.138-07:002016-09-22T01:31:27.138-07:00It's not wrong, but it's a worthless pursu...It's not wrong, but it's a worthless pursuit for women because they are not respected for having power and money. That was the great lie of feminism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-61463366384117351592016-09-20T13:22:42.150-07:002016-09-20T13:22:42.150-07:00Who is arguing against monogamy? I haven't enc...Who is arguing against monogamy? I haven't encountered any relevant political group campaigning against monogamy. A fringe minority of lunatics on the Internet is not exactly a formidable social movement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-80169818066253652532016-09-17T14:04:52.497-07:002016-09-17T14:04:52.497-07:00Yeah, the open hostility to marriage among Liberta...Yeah, the open hostility to marriage among Libertarians and others on the Cultural Left is pretty astonishing. It's like they don't understand what monogamous marriages have done for Western Civilization for the dozen or two centuries.<br /><br />Morality means more than "anything between two consenting adults is 100% okay, and any opinion thereof is none of your business!". Might as well start condoning incest too while we're at it.Kainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841689865415250256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-7576682393292841002016-09-17T14:02:08.862-07:002016-09-17T14:02:08.862-07:00I'm sure you can make a very strong argument o...I'm sure you can make a very strong argument of encouraging monogamy among homosexuals, pointing that it could (and maybe does) lead to lesser rates of STD transmission, lower rates of Depression, higher rates of wealth accumulation, etc. However, I'm not sure if there's enough data about this subject just yet.Kainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841689865415250256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-89130224695651108312016-09-17T08:38:07.913-07:002016-09-17T08:38:07.913-07:00Sadly enough XXIst century might indeed end up in ...Sadly enough XXIst century might indeed end up in a terrific vindication of Malthus...<br />But as allways the real issue is about the means. What means would you be willing to resort to in order to prevent population to grow ?<br />GLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04372485857847843352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-70075395581564307522016-09-17T05:15:23.729-07:002016-09-17T05:15:23.729-07:00Great post and discussion, except for some comment...Great post and discussion, except for some comments which express concerns about declining birth rates. Hopefully LK will address this issue in some future post.<br /><br />Even in advanced countries over-population is a primary cause of many of the world's problems - depleted resources, environmental degradation, climate change, poverty, internal and international migration, overseas contract workers, etc.<br />Why doesn't the Realist Left have a view on this vital issue?<br />Wouldn't a 50% reduction in world population be better than the expected 50%+ increase?<br />KongKinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992633301481631373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-37237198666105389492016-09-17T04:18:42.762-07:002016-09-17T04:18:42.762-07:00If we still use any kind of utilitarian analysis f...If we still use any kind of utilitarian analysis for public policy, we can not fault the existence of adult videogamers.<br /><br />Adult videogamers are the happiest segment of the population. There is no way we can force them to make a life choice that will make them less happy.Prateekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15287835907015065883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-66063659921389259742016-09-17T03:41:45.055-07:002016-09-17T03:41:45.055-07:00That was one of Daesh's selling points for the...That was one of Daesh's selling points for the surplus males in Europe who ended up joining them on the battlefield!SHNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-49786925904915131062016-09-17T03:39:52.993-07:002016-09-17T03:39:52.993-07:00I don't wish to speak for Illusionist, but whi...I don't wish to speak for Illusionist, but while he seems to be suggesting that women are more prone to jealousy than men, I doubt he would deny that jealousy also manifests in men; particularly men who feel their significant other is being unfaithful. It's a rather common and reasonable response to such a situation, which may explain why the blank slate left denies it.SHNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-5236091292024235062016-09-17T02:06:17.703-07:002016-09-17T02:06:17.703-07:00i am thinking that monogamy (inculding homosexual ...i am thinking that monogamy (inculding homosexual monogamy) is better but i dont want anybody to punish people if they think otherwise.<br /><br />cheers danieldisequilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760922141392402211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-24846177085286786672016-09-16T23:53:32.646-07:002016-09-16T23:53:32.646-07:00I meant to append the above comment to Prateek'...I meant to append the above comment to Prateek's comment, rather than JohnB's. My apologies.<br /><br />-CecilTheLionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-49334967035879965662016-09-16T20:11:38.242-07:002016-09-16T20:11:38.242-07:00I like the Realist Left idea, and the provocative ...I like the Realist Left idea, and the provocative case put forward here. I would share this with friends and family, but see an opening for rebuttal with regard to homosexuals. One of the horrific side effects of the generally beneficial mandate of monogamy is that homosexuals have been treated horribly. And of course there were other problems with mandated monogamy in terms of domestic abuse and lack of opportunity for women. So I would prefer to see a more progressive case made, accepting where we are as a starting pointing instead of the unrealistic hope that we will return to the good old days.Detroit Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03718490473585220856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-81741396470708501002016-09-16T19:24:43.121-07:002016-09-16T19:24:43.121-07:00Gary Becker, whom I much admire, wrote a famous an...Gary Becker, whom I much admire, wrote a famous and foolish article, arguing polygamy was good for women. He did this by sneaking into a footnote stipulations that have never held in any polygamous society! <br /><br />In every society marriage, as opposed to sex, has been a public institution, despite what the Libertarians say.Ken Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207803092348071005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-15986961280930936762016-09-16T17:50:55.674-07:002016-09-16T17:50:55.674-07:00I would guess that young low-skilled men aren'...I would guess that young low-skilled men aren't working because their prospects are so forlorn; they don't see a place for themselves in the world, so they abandon hope and opt for cheap thrills. What else is there for them?<br /><br />There was an excellent article in the Daily Beast about poor millennials. They've been shamed, for instance, for eating out a lot, not investing in homes, not buying cars, not investing in their future ect. But it's a symptom of a disease; they can't afford houses, or cars, or children, so they go out for dinner or go to the bar instead; splurging on weekends is quite affordable compared to modern family life, which is now a luxury good.<br /><br />- CecilTheLionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-46841766063890437802016-09-16T15:43:18.711-07:002016-09-16T15:43:18.711-07:00Prateek,
A society with large numbers of people r...Prateek,<br /><br />A society with large numbers of people reduced to spending their lives playing video games seems more like a cyberpunk film than a decent place to live. If we have to drug people up and get them addicted to junk food and electronic entertainment just so they don't explode into mass violence or join extremist groups or street gangs then I think we can say that we have failed as a society. In any event, there are still areas where this kind of dysfunctional scenario for young men is playing itself out. <br /><br />Even with the recent declines in violence and criminality, many American cities still suffer from gang violence and crime and our prisons are overflowing with young men. <br /><br />Also, I suspect that social isolation and alienation are causing a spike in mental illness and probably leading to some of the recent mass shootings we have seen. How many alienated young men will eventually put down the video game controller and decide to join extremist groups or decide to massacre a bunch of people at a mall? <br /><br />If you look at the profiles of these mass shooters and terrorists many of them suffered from social isolation and mental problems caused by living in a society that does not do much to help low-status men. <br /><br />For a general discussion of the issue of social isolation see: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-depression-cure/200907/social-isolation-modern-plague<br /><br />I think Robert Putnam is right. We have to strengthen civil society.<br /><br />Unfortunately, both the Right and the Left have overdosed on radical individualism and cannot even understand why living in communities with high social capital is so important. I fact, without high social capital and a strong civil society I don’t think we can have a progressive social democracy at all. <br />Tiberius Gracchusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-5358610693313825662016-09-16T15:43:08.770-07:002016-09-16T15:43:08.770-07:00I think the discussion is absoloute today is 21 ce...I think the discussion is absoloute today is 21 centuary and nobody will be punished for polymoury or polygamy and yet its rarely seen phenomen.<br /><br />Its clearly showing that people prefer monogamous relationships (i am not speaking about how much stable tjey are) than any other type and this what important.disequilibriumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760922141392402211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-9071369942955279462016-09-16T14:52:43.360-07:002016-09-16T14:52:43.360-07:00Gender equuality implies having the same gender, b...Gender equuality implies having the same gender, because genders aren't magnitudes. Is this possible, is this desirable? Is western society not loosing too many formal rules as such, regardeless of the content (Durkheimnian anomy)? The confusion implied by this causes psychiatric disorder and anomist suicide.Dr. Wintermutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04145660657433770971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-64051524961672008272016-09-16T14:26:56.983-07:002016-09-16T14:26:56.983-07:00Totally convincing about monogamy being better for...Totally convincing about monogamy being better for almost everyone involved. But you did not proove that polyamory is necessarily polygamy or polyandry and not a kind of free love (as advocated by many hippies back in the 70's)<br />Even a thinker so remote from regressive leftism as Bertrand Russell advocated some kind of free love. <br />Anyway my guess is that a vast majority will stick to some sort of monogamy (be it "pure", or a 10 years long contract, or some victorian compromise...)<br />GLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04372485857847843352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-87101622880912101282016-09-16T13:45:57.262-07:002016-09-16T13:45:57.262-07:00I never really understood why some Leftists had a ...I never really understood why some Leftists had a hatred for monogamy. I sometimes think that they take these positions just to spite what they perceive as the Western, Christian tradition, which they seem to have an irrational hatred of. <br /><br />By the way, a good example of a modern polygamous society working within a developed country would be some of the fundamentalist Mormon cults in the U.S., where the older, powerful men run off many young men in order to eliminate competition for young females. So progressive!<br />Tiberius Gracchusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-28096055690845975032016-09-16T11:59:46.971-07:002016-09-16T11:59:46.971-07:00The internet alt right just posts a lot of edgy me...The internet alt right just posts a lot of edgy memes, but is politically inactive.<br /><br />Do you think an internet alt righter is proactive enough to make a list of 50 friends to call up and encourage to vote and drag them out on election day?<br /><br />No, they will just go to vote themselves and will go back home and play World of Warcraft.Prateekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15287835907015065883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-72981521429149757992016-09-16T11:51:43.266-07:002016-09-16T11:51:43.266-07:00Very good, indeedVery good, indeedwww.MiguelNavascues.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00880006105532291958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-27985992096233226792016-09-16T09:54:10.972-07:002016-09-16T09:54:10.972-07:00"When women become wealthier and more powerfu..."When women become wealthier and more powerful in society, they don't have the same need to marry men for their resources and will instead chase men for their "alpha" characteristics"<br /><br />Are you saying there is something morally wrong with the acquisition of wealth and power by women that is not equally wrong with the acquisition of wealth and power by men?LachMinskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16329474355097347528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-31756799864071511312016-09-16T09:36:23.818-07:002016-09-16T09:36:23.818-07:00You're assuming it's only the man misbehav...You're assuming it's only the man misbehaving--but there's nothing to stop the woman from being the one with multiple suitors.<br /><br />I'd think it likely, LK, that the inverse would also occur in a modern polygamous society--the most attractive women would attract multiple husbands and the most suitors.<br /><br />Polyamory is childish nonsense, of course, but don't forget women can exploit it as much as men. TheIllusionist speaks as if only women get jealous. On the contrary--polyamory doesn't work because men are equally prone to jealousy. Both sides of the relationship must engage in ritual denial of their natural impulse towards jealousy.LachMinskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16329474355097347528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-12114206533311217742016-09-16T08:43:10.764-07:002016-09-16T08:43:10.764-07:00Basically correct (although women are not 'hyp...Basically correct (although women are not 'hypergamous', men are; I don't know where this bizarre myth came from). This will be the defining theme of the 21st century.<br /><br />The truth is that it is already too late. The ship has sailed; the birth rates are floored.<br /><br />Western civilisation is in a Wile-e- Coyote moment where it has already run off the cliff but has yet to fall. There is literally no way that anyone or anything can turn both the laws and the culture that is leading to declining birth rates.<br /><br />I'd just add that we'll get a right-wing pushback against the immigration policies, especially in Europe, which will just result in confusion.TheIllusionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17642837989235595346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6245381193993153721.post-29201832448711642452016-09-16T07:45:57.827-07:002016-09-16T07:45:57.827-07:00Polyamory does not lead to polygamy. If anything, ...Polyamory does not lead to polygamy. If anything, women would have the greater opportunity to develop multiple relationships, due to the social advantages they have in this regard.<br /><br />There is nothing to back your claim that it would lead to polygamy (in the form of men with multiple wives), or that it would lead to a hedonist society, or that it would lead to fewer people finding a partner.<br /><br />Much of the crime wave you mention was likely caused by lead:<br />http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lead-crime_hypothesisJohnBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04111028073811348708noreply@blogger.com