Monday, August 1, 2016

Erdoğan the Islamist Snake

Turkey is now threatening Europe: see here and here. In essence: if the EU does not grant visa-free travel for Turkish nationals, Turkey will open the floodgates.

The Turkish Foreign Minister is basically giving the EU two choices:
(1) submit to allowing visa-free travel for millions of Turks, which will be a security nightmare for Europe (since it will allow a backdoor into Europe from the whole Middle East via fake passports) and cause a tidal wave of illegal immigration, with disastrous demographic and cultural problems, or

(2) we will flood Europe with a tidal wave of illegal immigration, causing a security nightmare and disastrous demographic and cultural problems.
This is outrageous blackmail of the most brazen type; it can scarcely be believed.

Turkey, with its increasing authoritarian Islamist government, is simply an enemy of the West.

The EU, if there is any sense left in Brussels, should immediately create a police and naval force to prevent any illegal crossings from Turkey and turn back the boats and close Europe’s borders.

Otherwise, it’s rapid demographic and cultural suicide for Europe at a much more rapid rate than the slow boil death already happening at the moment.

Another related issue here is the recent failed coup attempt in Turkey on 15 July 2016. There seems to be some evidence that the US was quietly supporting this coup: see here. This in turn seems related to the volte-face Erdoğan recently made by trying to reverse his policy on the Syrian war and in restoring relations with Russia, decisions no doubt likely to upset Washington. It’s even reported that the Russians tipped off Erdoğan’s government with a warning about the impending coup from intercepted signals by Russian military intelligence.

But you can’t help wondering whether Erdoğan’s increasingly Islamist government and his role in causing chaos in Europe through the migrant crisis has made policy-makers in Washington think that he is a serious liability who should go.

Meanwhile, the diplomatic and strategic thaw in Russian-Turkish relations is proceeding rapidly (see also here).

18 comments:

  1. Interesting. The two worst actors on the Mid East stage - Turkey and Saudi Arabia - are both US/Israeli allies. Go figure.

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    1. As opposed to ISIS or Assad. Insert eye roll here.

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    2. Keep your eyes up there. You might eventually find a brain ;-)

      ISIS = Fostered by US interference in Iraq. Engineered by the US giving arms to various sundry rebels that eventually joined ISIS, because of interfering in Syria.

      Assad = Legit elected leader of his country, unless you believe John Kerry. By far better than the alternative, which is Iraq/Libya style destabilization.

      Or as I've point out 1,000 times now: The Middle East is a mess due to one thing and one thing only - Western Interference.

      Anyone who cannot see that is living in a world of denial.

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    3. "Assad = Legit elected leader of his country, "

      Holy sh*t, Kevin. Legitimate elected leaders?:

      "Presidential elections were held in Syria on 10 July 2000, following the death of President Hafez al-Assad. The only candidate was his son, Bashar al-Assad, with voters asked to approve or reject his candidacy. A reported 99.7% of voters voted in favour, with a turnout of 94.6%. Political opposition to the president was not allowed"
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_presidential_election,_2000

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    4. Also, the Middle east is a mess because of BOTH disastrous US interference AND problems with politics, economics, social issues and, yes, regressive Islamism and religious fundamentalism.

      It is not either/or, but "both" + "and".

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    5. What are you talking about LK? The Middle-East would be a social democratic paradise if not for Western intervention! You are living in denial if you think otherwise!

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    6. Do you just love to cherry-pick examples for the fun of it? Or do you think I'm stupid enough to fall for that. Nice use of an example over 15 years old. Now try updating your history:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_presidential_election,_2014

      "Presidential elections were held in Syria on 3 June 2014. It was the first multi-candidate election in decades since the Ba'ath party came to power in a coup. In late April 2014, Bashar al-Assad announced he would run for a third term in Syria's first multi-candidate direct presidential election."

      And don't even bother telling me what the US & UK thought of it. Most of the word was in resounding support of Assad:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_presidential_election,_2014#International

      And so what if he was the only candidate in 2000? How many candidates were there when George Washington was elected? Why, I do believe there was only ONE. And the people at large didn't even get to vote on the matter, either.

      It seriously befuddles me how you can go to such great lengths to try and prove Muslims are somehow worse sinners than the rest of us. Either way, consider yourself refuted.

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    7. What are you talking about LK? The Middle-East would be a social democratic paradise if not for Western intervention! You are living in denial if you think otherwise!

      http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/when-female-privilege-backfires-2

      "t was not always this way in Afghanistan. Prior to the 30 years of proxy warfare that ravaged their country, Afghan society was quite progressive, relatively speaking. Most westerners would probably be surprised by the number of older women confined to their homes by the Taliban, and barred from paid work, who were educated professionals. But people who understand how societies operate understand that safety and prosperity go hand in hand with the relaxing of often stringent cultural and legal standards. When the Soviets invaded, all that progressiveness kind of went out the window. And after thirty years of other societies taking a wrecking ball to Afghanistan, they found themselves back in a Dark Ages of poverty, conflict, subsistence living, and regional warlords interested in grabbing land and power, crushing the poor and the hapless under their boot heels to do it."

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    8. Taking your example, the Soviet Union is not considered a Western power, so you can't blame the West for that. There are many nations in the Middle-East, many of which have not been attacked by Western forces. Iraq is the only Gulf state to have been invaded by the Western coalition but Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates aren't exactly progressive utopias in absence of a U.S. military assault. Stupid interventionist wars have clearly had a negative effect on Middle-Eastern countries but it's extremely naive to think that these countries would be Western-style democracies in our absence.

      I find your defense of Muslims somewhat bizarre as they tend to militantly oppose many of the principles that leftists supposedly favour; gender equality, equitable treatment for sexual minorities, secularism, animal rights etc. To imply that Muslims are not "worse sinners than the rest of us" is pretty incredible. Islamic culture with its "honor killings", FGM, child marriages, capital punishment for victimless crimes and other barbaric staples of Sharia law is palpably inferior and the people who practice it are "worse sinners than the rest of us". The behavior of Muslims in European nations like Sweden and Germany should demonstrate to any reasonable person that Muslims as a group pose huge problems for secular liberal democracies.

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    9. OK, Kevin, some progressive cultural enrichment in Europe from migrants:

      (1) female genital mutilation
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3629135/Almost-new-200-cases-FGM-reported-WEEK-England-London-home-half-victims.html

      (2) mass rape and abuse of UK children:

      http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/09/07/islamic-rape-gangs-rotherham-is-just-the-tip-of-the-iceberg/
      --------------
      Diversity = awesome.

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    10. Taking your example, the Soviet Union is not considered a Western power, so you can't blame the West for that.

      Meh, so-so. It's a "Eurasian" power. Not nearly as non-western as for example, China. In any case, you can still blame outside interference from foreign powers if you'd prefer. But really, you're kinda pettifogging the issue AFAICS.

      Saudi Arabia

      Now there's one more example of where we're only being told half the story:

      https://www.quora.com/Are-Saudi-women-still-not-allowed-to-drive-If-yes-what-is-the-main-reason

      This attitude, however, is largely confined to the major cities. Saudi women do drive in rural areas, where driving is simply a necessity. Women on farms or in pastures drive pickup trucks and SUVs because they need to be able to move animals, fodder, and the like. If they don't, the family starves. The men in those areas understand this and so do not object. In urban areas, things are closer together, there are more people (and more opportunities to sin), and there's somewhat of a public transportation system. So, the thinking goes, women don't need to drive."

      Also, check some of the other comments and photos towards the bottom.

      http://islamicpamphlets.com/womens-rights-in-islam

      aren't exactly progressive utopias in absence of a U.S. military assault

      So what do we have here?

      Afghanistan was moving towards being more progressive prior to 30 years of interventionism.

      Saudi Arabia isn't all that progressive (we'll assume for the same of argument,) without any interference.

      So knock off the stupid interference and we'd have at least ONE country that's doing better! And who knows what might happen, if a country moving in that direction is allowed to breathe for 30 years straight? Maybe other nations might take notice. Democracy can be catching!

      Have the US not get rid of Iran's democratically elected leader to install the Shah. Why that's TWO countries doing better!

      And it might help if the US wasn't colluding with Saudi Arabia to fund terrorism on top of all of that:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/world/middleeast/us-relies-heavily-on-saudi-money-to-support-syrian-rebels.html?_r=0

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-marshall/the-perils-of-saudi-arabi_b_1873828.html

      But US interference hasn't caused any problems. Oh, no.

      I find your defense of Muslims somewhat bizarre as they tend to militantly oppose many of the principles that leftists supposedly favour; gender equality, equitable treatment for sexual minorities, secularism, animal rights etc.

      Yeah sorry, I haven't been checking Think Progress or Media Matters for my marching orders much, lately. Not sure what the current thinking is ;-)

      But this "Leftist" prefers to allow cultures to determine their own direction and paddle their own boat without harrassment. If we want to see the Middle East change, then let' try peaceful means of enterprise, missionaries and other engagements shall we?

      To imply that Muslims are not "worse sinners than the rest of us" is pretty incredible

      No it isn't. It's the most sound, clear-headed thinking there is. It's also very Christian in it's ethics.

      Islamic culture with its "honor killings", FGM, child marriages, capital punishment for victimless crimes and other barbaric staples of Sharia law

      For now, I'm going to by pass all of that in terms of examining just how much of what you list is really distorted in the media. Let's take a look at "our" own sins for a minute:

      http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-now-involved-134-wars/196846

      We may not oppress "White" women, but we have our nose up every non-white skinned @$$ on the planet right now. We don't necessarily kill, we just pay others to do it for us. How utterly Bourgeois of us! Why, we show more class than those dirty Arabs who just go and cut people up themselves!

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    11. "For now, I'm going to by pass all of that in terms of examining just how much of what you list is really distorted in the media."

      I see, Kevin. Absolutely incredible unwillingness to see and acknowledge any truths that refute your point of view.

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    12. Diversity = awesome

      I'm not trying to claim that there's no evil committed by those sweet little Muslims at any time anywhere on the planet. I am claiming that there's the issue of exaggerations, misreporting, misunderstandings etc that tend to shed more heat than light. Something about ho all the intelligence in the world claimed Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat before Iraq was invaded? That's a pretty impressive list of Intelligence agencies getting something blatantly wrong, don't you think?

      And I am claiming... and I've heard no reason to dispute it so far... that interference has impeded progress. So far, the facts seem to line up quite nicely behind that assertion.

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    13. Yes, interference in secularism in the Arab world no doubt impeded progress.

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    14. I see, Kevin. Absolutely incredible unwillingness to see and acknowledge any truths that refute your point of view

      No, it's just that I've already spent a lot of time replying to you guys, and to research how often things happen vs how much they are claimed to happen is something for another time. So instead, I just decided to show an example of how truly vile the West can be.

      Just to throw out an example - "Capital Punishment for Rape." I believe if you'll look closer, it's actually for adultery. If a woman claims she's raope, she is required to prove it and if she cannot, then she is guilty of adultery.

      Sure that's hardly "Progressive" - but it seems to me that Feminism is getting in the mix and making it sound worse than it actually is.

      And... it probably doesn't happen all that often.

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    15. ""Presidential elections were held in Syria on 3 June 2014. It was the first multi-candidate election"

      lol.. an election held in which opposition groups boycotted it and all monitoring was done by "allies of Assad from more than 30 countries including Bolivia, Brazil, Cuba, Ecuador, India, Iran, Iraq, Nicaragua, Russia, South Africa and Venezuela[18][19] issued a statement claiming the election was 'free, fair and transparent'."

      If you believe this constitutes good evidence that it was really free and fair, you believe in unicorns.

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    16. http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/04/the-syrian-elections

      "And even those elements of Syrian society that were not enthusiastic supporters of the government grew to understand that the legitimate indigenous opposition had been displaced by powerful non-Syrian forces from the U.S. and the Gulf States who provided material, political and diplomatic support to an opposition that not only had tenuous ties to the country but seemed only committed to waging war. This convinced many that the only politically consistent option was to support the government, as an expression of support for Syria’s sovereignty and its’ national project."

      But outside interference never screws the pooch. Oh, no.

      http://orientalreview.org/2014/06/03/international-observers-endorse-syrian-elections

      http://www.workers.org/2014/06/24/syria-election-observers-un-elections-big-defeat-u-s/#.V6KxIUYrJMw

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  2. Big pro Erdogan rally in Cologne today. Tens of thousands cheering.

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